Community MetaSteam | February 2020 - Marching Towards Greatness

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InquisitorAles

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Oct 19, 2018
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After a few weeks of absense, I'm slowly getting back on the track! Did a short video about GTAIV GFWL news, and now I've published a new Re-Install video about isometric action RPG game that most of you probably never heard of. It's called Prince of Qin and it is set in ancient China:


It's actually one of the first games I've ever played on PC, so yeah, I instantly realized I wanted to revist it and make a video about this game once I saw screenshots that KainXVIII posted few weeks ago. Well, can't say this game aged well, but it was fun to play it again and practice in video editing before doing something bigger. Still have tons of games I want to finish and make reviews on them, but barely have free time for everything and even thinking about how packed are going to be this Spring makes me feel dizzy :dizzy-face:
 

Panda Pedinte

Best Sig Maker on the board!
Sep 20, 2018
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After a few weeks of absense, I'm slowly getting back on the track! Did a short video about GTAIV GFWL news, and now I've published a new Re-Install video about isometric action RPG game that most of you probably never heard of. It's called Prince of Qin and it is set in ancient China:


It's actually one of the first games I've ever played on PC, so yeah, I instantly realized I wanted to revist it and make a video about this game once I saw screenshots that KainXVIII posted few weeks ago. Well, can't say this game aged well, but it was fun to play it again and practice in video editing before doing something bigger. Still have tons of games I want to finish and make reviews on them, but barely have free time for everything and even thinking about how packed are going to be this Spring makes me feel dizzy :dizzy-face:
Indeed I never heard about that game before!
 
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Nabs

Hyper˗Toxic Pro˗Consumer
Oct 23, 2018
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I'm glad they gave us a free weekend of Dying Light. I was able to play it for a bit and realize it wasn't for me, and I was able to log into Techlands website and get a free copy of Bad Blood. Win Win.
 

Wereverine

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Jan 30, 2019
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I encountered something today that I didn't know existed. I checked out my inventory just to see the selling price of items, and the Sell button was greyed out. Apparently if you haven't bought anything on Steam for over a year, you can't sell items on the marketplace. I don't have a pressing need to sell items but I wonder what the rationale is.
 
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xxr

Member of the Abyss
Dec 21, 2018
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I encountered something today that I didn't know existed. I checked out my inventory just to see the selling price of items, and the Sell button was greyed out. Apparently if you haven't bought anything on Steam for over a year, you can't sell items on the marketplace. I don't have a pressing need to sell items but I wonder what the rationale is.
It's just one of several restrictions in place to mitigate the use of bots and non-genuine accounts. You could argue it's a necessary evil.
 
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Dragon1893

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Just a tip from my experience last year: Unless you plan to 100% it, don't complete any of the sidequest lines until after you've finished the story. You can complete them up to the final step but leave that until after. I can elaborate more if you'd like but I'm not sure if you'd want an explanation or just go in blind. I'll just note that for me I completed the story and then realized I still had to do hours of side stuff I hadn't intended to do to get a proper ending and credits.

And I am not speaking about the true ending, which is another beast completely that requires 100% everything and beating the game twice, etc. That's for the really insane folks.

Edit: And base game vs complete package depends on your playstyle. Are you going to want to wring everything out of the game or are you more likely to beat it, get an ending, and just move on. The DLC stuff is overall great for adding more to the game but I didn't really touch much of it since I tend to just beat games and move on right away.
I'll just play the base game for now.
I don't understand what you mean with the sidequests.
 

Wibblewozzer

Robot on the inside
Dec 6, 2018
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I'll just play the base game for now.
I don't understand what you mean with the sidequests.
Have you played the other Arkham games? You know how they have side content that'll be a series of missions that end in taking down a villain or some other Batman character making a showing? Once you beat the story the game just plops you back into the world with no credits and a sort of vague "there's more to do" sort of message. To get an actual ending and credits the game then gives you a number of those side missions to complete to 100%. But for some insane reason it's not like a set "complete seven to trigger the ending". Instead it looks at how many you have left to complete and then gives you more to complete. So someone that completed none of them has 13 (I think) available to complete and the game will ask them to complete six more to get the ending. But if you've completed ten of them and then beat the game afterwards it'll tell you to complete two more. So one person completes six total and another person has to complete 12 total. It's honestly crazy why they designed it that way.

So what I'm suggesting is you should get the side missions you enjoy to one step from completion so it's not counted as completed and you'll have less to complete in total to actually get the ending.

I think I had seven completed when I beat the story and then it told me to complete three or four more. Which meant that the ones I purposely dodged because they had a ton of steps or I didn't find as fun I now had to finish up just so I could complete the game. But if I had all of them incomplete I could have finished the ones I ultimately wanted to and gotten the ending.
 

beep boop

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Dec 6, 2018
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I don’t think I got 100% on Arkham Knight, but I’m pretty sure I got the true ending. Unless there’s another ending that I never saw. Or maybe I spent more time on that game than I thought. I liked it!
 

Dragon1893

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Apr 17, 2019
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Have you played the other Arkham games? You know how they have side content that'll be a series of missions that end in taking down a villain or some other Batman character making a showing? Once you beat the story the game just plops you back into the world with no credits and a sort of vague "there's more to do" sort of message. To get an actual ending and credits the game then gives you a number of those side missions to complete to 100%. But for some insane reason it's not like a set "complete seven to trigger the ending". Instead it looks at how many you have left to complete and then gives you more to complete. So someone that completed none of them has 13 (I think) available to complete and the game will ask them to complete six more to get the ending. But if you've completed ten of them and then beat the game afterwards it'll tell you to complete two more. So one person completes six total and another person has to complete 12 total. It's honestly crazy why they designed it that way.

So what I'm suggesting is you should get the side missions you enjoy to one step from completion so it's not counted as completed and you'll have less to complete in total to actually get the ending.

I think I had seven completed when I beat the story and then it told me to complete three or four more. Which meant that the ones I purposely dodged because they had a ton of steps or I didn't find as fun I now had to finish up just so I could complete the game. But if I had all of them incomplete I could have finished the ones I ultimately wanted to and gotten the ending.
That's weird. Thanks for the heads up.
 
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PC-tan

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Is it because of licensing reasons that EA never put it's old Need for Speed games on Origin? I think I will eventually have to hunt down stuff like the OG Need for Speed Most Wanted game and stuff like that. As for as racing games go, I did try to play stuff like the OG Gran Turismo game on my PSOne but I just sucked at the game and I didn't have a memory card. I was really bad and those courses that you have to do to get a license.


So the arcade style NFS games were more my thing. I would also play some Kart games since those are fun. I think Crash Team Racing was my first PSOne game. I never beat the game but once it releases on PC I hope that I can beat it this time. I also played later Crash Kart games, the Nitro one was actually the first GBA game that I ever owned. I would later on also get CTTR and that was one very fun because of the way you could fuse the cars together.

I wonder if those will ever get rereleased/remade. Also the first game I got for the NDS was a game for Disney Cars. Since we have been getting some older Disney games released in the last few years, will we ever get that one Disney racing game from the PSOne era rereleased?


Oh and I think I might end up buying a Honda CRX. Vrooom Vroom. The thing will hopefully cost me less than $5K USD to buy and to fix it up and all of that. After that I think I am going to save up money to buy another car. I mainly plan to use the CRX as my commute car seeing how the things gets like 40 miles per gallon (that's right I use those types of measurements) I may or I may not end up doing donuts in a parking lot somewhere. And I'm going to have to learn how to drive stick shift.


I said I was having issues with my Google Pixel 3A and I sent it back to Amazon for a refund. I think I am just going to wait a few months until Motorola releases the Moto G Stylus in the US and buy that. The main thing that the Pixel 3A seems to do better than the G Stylus is the display and the camera.
 

fantomena

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Dec 17, 2018
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If HLA get's great reviews I expect a big wave of "WHY IS IT VR ONLY" from people not knowing that the main reason it's great is because it's VR only.

Valve isn't making Alyx because they need to, but because they want to. Alyx is VR only because it needs to be in order for Valve to innovate.

Alanah Pearce had a very interesting comment in a video about Alyx when she said she talked to Ken Levine (Bioshock creator) where he stated that pretty much all FPS games after Half-Life has been Half-Life reskinned. All FPS games uses the same structure.

With VR Valve should be able to change how an FPS is structured.

Valve could easily have made millions of dollars and sold millions of copies of HLA for flat screen, but they don't want to make yet another regular shooter. They want to innovate, which is why HLA is VR only.

Of course, not everyone can afford VR or a gaming PC, but that's not something Valve will depend on. Valve wants to make an innovative FPS game and for that VR is apparently required and it's up to people to decide if they want to follow innovation or not.

Valve has the luxury to innovate without going bankrupt. It's up to the individual consumer if they want to join in.
 
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PC-tan

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If HLA get's great reviews I expect a big wave of "WHY IS IT VR ONLY" from people not knowing that the main reason it's great is because it's VR only.

Valve isn't making Alyx because they need to, but because they want to. Alyx is VR only because it needs to be in order for Valve to innovate.

Alanah Pearce had a very interesting comment in a video about Alyx when she said she talked to Ken Levine (Bioshock creator) where he stated that pretty much all FPS games after Half-Life has been Half-Life reskinned. All FPS games uses the same structure.

With VR Valve should be able to change how an FPS is structured.

Valve could easily have made millions of dollars and sold millions of copies of HLA for flat screen, but they don't want to make yet another regular shooter. They want to innovate, which is why HLA is VR only.

Of course, not everyone can afford VR or a gaming PC, but that's not something Valve will depend on. Valve wants to make an innovative FPS game and for that VR is apparently required and it's up to people to decide if they want to follow innovation or not.

Valve has the luxury to innovate without going bankrupt. It's up to the individual consumer if they want to join in.
So you by any chance feel that the game is being over hyped?

So say reviews come out and on a scale of 1-10 they tend to be in the high 7s, low 8s. How would people react to that? Not only that but is the fact that it's a Half Life game potentially going drive the score to be even lower if it doesn't meet peoples exceptions? I think that Boneworks was reviewed by some critics but I don't think it got that high of a score but it did have a much higher score on Steam.

Will HLA potential become the VR game (maybe Beast saber would be the only other one?) That will have the highest number of reviews (not to be mistaken with score) for a VR title?

It seems like there are already some 'critics" that would like to review the game but they don't have the VR set up to play the game. And how will that work as far as reviews go? For major games and stuff like that I think that video game companies will fly over people to try out a game and stuff like that (and they usually do that for large groups of people?) Will Valve also just send out a lot of press keys for the game?


So many possibilities.

Will Samsung and Facebook also end up promoting their headsets even more and mention how they are HLA compatible?

Facebook's approach to the whole Quest is something else. The Quest is successful and has been selling well. On YouTube you still see ads for the thing, buy the reality is that you can't really buy the thing right now since it's still out of stock in a lot of places. So they are spending money on advertising something that you can't buy. It's not unusual but it's a lot different compared to what Valve is doing?
 

fantomena

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So you by any chance feel that the game is being over hyped?

So say reviews come out and on a scale of 1-10 they tend to be in the high 7s, low 8s. How would people react to that? Not only that but is the fact that it's a Half Life game potentially going drive the score to be even lower if it doesn't meet peoples exceptions? I think that Boneworks was reviewed by some critics but I don't think it got that high of a score but it did have a much higher score on Steam.

Will HLA potential become the VR game (maybe Beast saber would be the only other one?) That will have the highest number of reviews (not to be mistaken with score) for a VR title?

It seems like there are already some 'critics" that would like to review the game but they don't have the VR set up to play the game. And how will that work as far as reviews go? For major games and stuff like that I think that video game companies will fly over people to try out a game and stuff like that (and they usually do that for large groups of people?) Will Valve also just send out a lot of press keys for the game?


So many possibilities.

Will Samsung and Facebook also end up promoting their headsets even more and mention how they are HLA compatible?

Facebook's approach to the whole Quest is something else. The Quest is successful and has been selling well. On YouTube you still see ads for the thing, buy the reality is that you can't really buy the thing right now since it's still out of stock in a lot of places. So they are spending money on advertising something that you can't buy. It's not unusual but it's a lot different compared to what Valve is doing?
I think the game will be great, but how good and innovative depends on how experiences the reviewer/player is with VR games.

Like, Asgard's Wrath sky high reviews, 9/10 or something from IGN, but I give it 7/10. It was somewhat dissapointing. The most dissapointing part of VR have been physics, physics totally changes VR gameplay. Boneworks and Saints & Sinners have made good step forwards in terms of physics. Lack of physics means that weapons and stuff clips through walls and other objects, it won't let you pick up stuff and so on. Great VR physics allows players to solve things the way they want.

It entirely depends on how much new stuff is compared to Boneworks, Saints & Sinners and other very capable VR games and how it's implemented.

Like, do I have to manually put my gun into a holder by my hip or do I press a button and put the gun in window that comes up when I press the button and the game does the rest?

There are a lot of smaller stuff in flat screen gaming that can totally change the game in VR and wherever Alyx is good or great depends on how Valve designs the gameplay.
 
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PC-tan

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Even though HLA is a VR game compared to say DOTA2, Artifact,and Underlords it's still much more of a "traditional" game and it will be showing off what Source 2 is capable of. When making things like VR games at least will Source 2 now become an option that some devs might thing about instead of say Unreal or Unity? I am not sure what game engines a lot of the other well know VR games run on, but from the looks of it not only does HLA run great it also looks great.


Will they do AR again? Is the Apple X Valve AR project a real thing? I have so many questions.
 
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Hektor

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Nov 1, 2018
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Comprehensive Pregnancy Mechanic – Hazumi’s body will actively change as a result of pregnancy. In addition to her belly growing each trimester, she will also experience things such as morning sickness, darkening nipples, lactation, and postpartum period. Sexual encounters can also be affected.

Detailed Menstrual Cycle – The chance of getting pregnant will depend on the current phase of Hazumi’s menstrual cycle. She will even have her period.

Fully Playable Prostitution Action – Most sexual encounters are fully interactive. Players may select from a variety of techniques, and have complete control of every action. Satisfy your partner for a bigger payout.

GOTY

 

Mivey

MetaMember
Sep 20, 2018
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Comprehensive Pregnancy Mechanic – Hazumi’s body will actively change as a result of pregnancy. In addition to her belly growing each trimester, she will also experience things such as morning sickness, darkening nipples, lactation, and postpartum period. Sexual encounters can also be affected.

Detailed Menstrual Cycle – The chance of getting pregnant will depend on the current phase of Hazumi’s menstrual cycle. She will even have her period.

Fully Playable Prostitution Action – Most sexual encounters are fully interactive. Players may select from a variety of techniques, and have complete control of every action. Satisfy your partner for a bigger payout.

GOTY

I suddenly think that GOG and their closed garden mentality is a lot more appealing, for some reason
 

Alextended

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I don't care if it's innovative, I just want a good campaign with nice gameplay and level design that is fresh enough to not feel like been there done that and good enough to not make me think I'd rather play the games it was inspired by again instead, hopefully a story that doesn't get in the way by either its quality or over-abundance on top (I thought Half-Life did this just about right with its limited means and Half-Life 2 tried to add too much detail and characterization and depth to its story telling so I liked it less as it didn't have quite the level of quality those elements need to be compelling to me if they're there at all).

3D game design applies just the same in VR as it does out of it even if the player interface and interactions are done with tracked hand representations rather than just mouselook and buttons. Some people hail Boneworks as innovative, I'd give it a 5/10, or just basically a not recommended status, other games did things better even if they didn't hype hyper real physics or try to be jacks of all trades in the same way instead focusing on fewer specific elements they do well and just because one uses this or that tech doesn't mean the game is good or better than others that don't.

For example Boneworks has melee weapon physics (very) similar to those seen in Blade & Sorcery (yet in videos they acted like they pioneered the concept) but to me they don't add anything much to the game, they could have gone for a far simpler system that still looked natural and physics based but without all those different weapons and different penetrative capabilities and all that as it adds nothing to the actual gameplay. In contrast, the simple system in Saints & Sinners adds a lot as the core of it is that you need to penetrate the skull and get to the brain for zombies to be killed, they don't simulate it to the same detailed degree as Blade & Sorcery but it just feels natural and good and like it adds to the gameplay in a balanced manner. And of course in Blade & Sorcery that melee system does make sense as the enemy AI takes that in account and at least tries to put up a fight, block, parry and dodge your strikes, so you need to overcome their defenses to get good hits in and what not, it just works for it. It too has the infinite slow motion crutch but as it's currently just an early access arena style mode I just decide if I want to use it or not, hopefully they make it some kind of Max Payne like resource when they implement proper progression elements.

And that's before going into the janky implementations of Boneworks like the inventory which means you often drop things instead of placing them in the body slots you intend to when other VR FPS did this much better years ago with just the right amount of stickiness and lenience making them far more natural to use. Or the way your physical body representation is affected by everything in the environment so you get different degrees of involuntary not-player-initiated body and camera movement based on how you bumped into this or that random thing as you were playing, rather than simply smoothly stop your movement if it's meant to be insurmountable or just push the object out of the way if it's too minor to affect you as it happens in your average 3D game these days where minor objects are detail clutter there for effect and only walls or whatever objects actually affect your character's movement.

Its campaign is also pretty bad to me because it lacks good level, encounter and gameplay design and no amount of physics can save that. The environments aren't, most of the time (since there are some clever bits here and there), just visually uninteresting which can be chalked up to a subjective dislike of that faux VR-within-VR theme they went for, they're uninteresting to traverse, and the gameplay incorporates clashing elements like the slow motion making every gunfight trivial and therefor also uninteresting. It kind of tries to ape Half-Life 2 with physics puzzles and things but doesn't have the good design to back it up. Not that Half-Life 2 only had great stuff, it too had some silly puzzles here and there but the bulk of it was pretty well done overall so it's easy to overlook. In contrast to that basically infinite slow motion system trivializing encounters, Saints & Sinners has a decently effective resource management meta-game implemented, all the weapons act like ranged weapons in that you need resources for them, melee weapons break with use so it's like using junk which allows you to craft more of them (only back at your base, not during a level) almost like ammo, ranged weapons can also break and use ammo on top, your inventory slots are limited so you can't bring more than you'll ever need with you or loot so much junk you're set for a life of crafting and as a result you always gauge a situation with the resources it would take to overcome or in return yield in mind on top of your basic playing skills which aren't the be all end all.

In the original Half-Life and Deus Ex and System Shock 2 and other ancient by now games of that era you can often pick up and drop or throw pretty much any object you think you should be able to and have all kinds of breakables and interactive items and objects to make the environment seem more realistic and like it's more than artificial corridors designed for the player to have something to do but rather they were the environments they're trying to portray and then the game's events went down, even though they use rudimentary or near non existent physics in terms of how they're viewed today, it just works. In contrast, with Boneworks you have so called hyper real ragdoll-type (but not just for dead bodies, instead affecting everything in motion, your body included) physics but it fails at making the environments cohesive and compelling like those old nearly physics-less games achieved by design. It's wrong to say it's thanks to Boneworks style physics that hands and objects no longer clip through walls and objects, and how every game should be like that.

Similarly older VR games had you interact with the environment and objects in natural ways with your hands even though they didn't employ all of Boneworks' in depth physics calculations and related stuff. Opening drawers and cupboards and things with your hands is just how it was natural for them to use and they've been doing it even if they didn't physically simulate the whole furniture (and in Boneworks case result in annoying unintended interactions like dragging the whole furniture off the ground by just trying to open it which is something that easily happens in game when you clearly have to expend much more force to do that in real life so you never do it by accident instead limiting your interactions to the easily manipulated parts of it, the drawers or doors and their own essentially on-rails movement limits) or every atom in the game objects.

I guess it's kind of how Amnesia: The Dark Descent did that whole physical object stuff pretty good with its mouse interface, manually using objects and doors and things like that. It works very well for that game, but that doesn't mean every first person game since Amnesia should employ that system. In other games it's much better to go with the simple press E or whatever to interact with the object in this single predetermined way, or maybe with a bit more detail if you're playing something like Rainbow Six and you want and even need to based on the rest gameplay to differentiate between slow/silent and fast/louder opening of a door and such, but generally never to the detailed degree Amnesia did it with to enhance its realism and atmosphere.

Similarly in VR games I can play something super simple like Pistol Whip where I just shoot, reload by just pointing the gun down or up or whatever I chose in the options, and just let loose with a fun game balanced for those simple mechanics, yet I also enjoy Onward with its far more realistic (yet still not fully physics driven) representation of firearms and detailed interactivity with their reloading mechanisms and various attachments, gadgets, and so on and so forth (and next to no other interactions as that's what the game focuses on, tactical shootery shenanigans, I don't need to be able to pick up a coke can and squeeze it as we can in Alyx for that to work well). Whatever works for the game. Just because VR is next gen and all new or whatever doesn't mean every VR game needs to do everything one can imagine for real lifelife interactions to be worthwhile, just as modern non VR 3D games don't all have to be fully realistic sandboxes.

Anyway, I have lots of gripes with how things were implemented in Boneworks but it's the content that I find sub par, I could deal with the janky annoyances if the level design and encounter design and basically your journey through the game made it worth it. I'm sure Half-Life: Alyx will be a far better game.

But even if Boneworks was the only existing VR example of an actual full fledged action adventure or whatever (which it isn't), I still wouldn't personally recommend it just because it tries to do all those things that in my opinion it fails at. That would be like recommending the original Red Steel on Wii because it does everything, melee weapons, shooting, in a single player adventure campaign environment. I'd sooner recommend Link's Crossbow Training and Wii Sports Resort to show far simpler and smaller games that however do these elements, shooting, and various other motion control uses, better and fun and let you imagine the possibilities of fully fledged adventures incorporating those mechanics while waiting for something of the quality of Metroid Prime 3 or Red Steel 2, if they ever appeared in that timeline, rather than play bad games just based on their premise and not their actual, practical merits. Similarly I'd sooner have people play Onward and Blade & Sorcery and First Contact and Vox Machinae for simpler games that have mechanics you can imagine how next level it would be when they're used in a good high production value campaign or other AAA type productions, whether they ever happen or not, rather than hail Boneworks as the thing to copy when it basically copied all those other games itself, but did it badly.
 
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yuraya

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I'm waiting on Alyx reviews before buying headset. Just to see what the VR community has to say about it. I doubt it gets poor reviews because I seriously don't think Valve would put out some mediocre VR game. I would guess the Half-Life team has better shit to do than that. But who knows at this point. This industry is so unpredictable every year someone will disappoint you.

I am a little bit concerned about VR availability tho. The microsoft store near where I live had both Odyssey+ and Rift S in stock couple weeks ago. This week both out of stock. And neither headset seems to be the most popular all things considered. The Index and Quest seem to be loved much more than those 2. So yea if Alyx turns out to be the most amazing shit ever I hope stock doesn't go haywire for too long.
 

Knurek

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Oct 16, 2018
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Comprehensive Pregnancy Mechanic – Hazumi’s body will actively change as a result of pregnancy. In addition to her belly growing each trimester, she will also experience things such as morning sickness, darkening nipples, lactation, and postpartum period. Sexual encounters can also be affected.

Detailed Menstrual Cycle – The chance of getting pregnant will depend on the current phase of Hazumi’s menstrual cycle. She will even have her period.

Fully Playable Prostitution Action – Most sexual encounters are fully interactive. Players may select from a variety of techniques, and have complete control of every action. Satisfy your partner for a bigger payout.

GOTY

Don't link to actual pornography, kthxbye.
(One of the screenshots on the store page is deffo NSFL)
 

Alextended

Segata's Disciple
Jan 28, 2019
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i would have figured the nature of the game was made implicit through its description
Also I can't even view it without logging in, does it not give you the age gate/warning if you're logged in (cba to check, lol)?
 

PC-tan

Low Tier Weeb
Jan 19, 2019
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Comprehensive Pregnancy Mechanic – Hazumi’s body will actively change as a result of pregnancy. In addition to her belly growing each trimester, she will also experience things such as morning sickness, darkening nipples, lactation, and postpartum period. Sexual encounters can also be affected.

Detailed Menstrual Cycle – The chance of getting pregnant will depend on the current phase of Hazumi’s menstrual cycle. She will even have her period.

Fully Playable Prostitution Action – Most sexual encounters are fully interactive. Players may select from a variety of techniques, and have complete control of every action. Satisfy your partner for a bigger payout.

GOTY

What happens to the child? Or does the game basically just end after that? Or is that it's own game mechanic. Once you have a child you now have to pay for child care and all of this other stuff which now means you have to work more and also means an increased chance of another child.
 

Wibblewozzer

Robot on the inside
Dec 6, 2018
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I don’t think I got 100% on Arkham Knight, but I’m pretty sure I got the true ending. Unless there’s another ending that I never saw. Or maybe I spent more time on that game than I thought. I liked it!
There's essentially three endings:

First is beating the story. It's not really an ending because it just tosses you back into the city, says some further story stuff that's spoilery, there's no credits, and you get the amount of side stories you need to complete to then trigger:

The second ending, which is for beating the story and then some number of side stories. You simply cannot trigger this upon beating the story unless you've completed every side story up to the point (including all Riddler stuff). This is the first real ending. It ends the actual story content and you get credits.

There's a third ending, the "true" ending, which only triggers after beating the game at 100% twice, the second time on the harder difficulty. I'm quite certain on both save files you must complete all objectives, including the Riddler stuff. This is a huge slog. People that do this are nuts. YouTube the true ending if you want to see it.
 

PC-tan

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Jan 19, 2019
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+-----:

So without Valve is HTC having issues selling the Vive? It seems like that means they will only have the Enterprise segment left and even then they will be competing with at least Oculus (Facebook) and Microsoft (Hololens).

Valve us the one making the 2.0 light houses and I guess that HTC still makes the 1.o ones? Which would explain why HTCs newer stuff does not ship with the 2.0 light houses
 

Alextended

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From what I've read 2.0 just makes it easier to have larger play spaces, as in, location based VR venue type stuff, not your average room, with tracking quality being super similar outside that, if not identical. I guess they see no reason to update their offerings on that front and manufacture the new stuff, especially if it leads to less profit per sale (or the same but with higher less attractive prices, idk). Or maybe they just intended to get over lighthouse tracking altogether when they started designing the Cosmos much like WMR/Rift S as the Vive successor. HTC's main problem is the price vs the competition, their lack of updates on the controllers front with the wands being super outdated and clunky in terms of available inputs compared to the competition, and that Cosmos, which should have been on par with Rift S, underwhelmed everyone due to its lacking tracking quality and much higher price. I can understand one failure like with the Cosmos debut, but they're apparently doubling down on it on top with the recently announced different models. Why doesn't Cosmos Elite, which goes for lighthouse tracking with its faceplate, not have updated wands that match the design of the normal Cosmos controllers (and so basically have a layout compatible with and on par with the competition)? How much is Cosmos Play going to cost? With even less cameras than the original Cosmos it probably means even worse tracking as they also said specifically it's still great for viewing VR content and playing Angry Birds VR, which doesn't inspire any confidence as you could probably do those things on an Oculus Go or Gear VR/any mobile phone VR instead. That also makes it sound like some casual gamer solution yet given the rest of the HMD specs it probably costs too much for such a purpose still. Why didn't they focus on fixing the normal Cosmos tracking first? They could have redeemed the product line for owners and make it more attractive for new users before doubling down on it. I guess I just don't get their strategy.
 
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Alextended

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Also playing The Lab again on Oculus I see even Valve don't have the hand placement as good as it could be for devices other than Index, if I "bro fist" myself in real life the VR hands still have some good distance between them, and the natural controller holding pose makes the in game hand gestures weird, it should translate the pose differently to match Oculus better. Hopefully Alyx does that better. At least when actually holding other objects you use it's fine but yeah, matching the hands better would be great. And I guess it's why some other SteamVR games have similar issues, if developers without Oculus work off it. Thankfully the better developed games tend to do it their own way or even support Oculus SDK instead of SteamVR natively or whatever.

Edit: This is the default hand pose in The Lab, with the thumb placement being different based on if I'm touching the buttons, the analog stick, or the capacitive touch space next to the buttons (which only original Rift has I think, S might not, I'm not sure though). You see it basically detects I'm not pushing the grip trigger so it has those 3 fingers it's mapped to mostly extended, yet it detects I'm touching the front trigger with my index finger and bends that way too much even though I'm not pushing it ,just resting my index finger on it, and in general it just looks awkward and doesn't match my real hand pose at all. It feels weird. Also when I touch (not necessarily push) buttons A/X it bends the thumb well to account for it but when I do that on B/Y it doesn't, it keeps the thumb kind of up, not to a thumbs up (which it does when not touching anything on the controller's surface), but angled high. Anyway it's weird af when just holding the controller:

This is the pose in Oculus Home and similar vanilla/sdk environments instead with similar real life finger placement, it feels much more natural for the device:

It has the three last fingers somewhat bent as you're obviously holding the controller since it doesn't have a strap like Index (though your real hand is most certainly more closed than that, it's a good middle ground), yet not pressing the grip trigger to bend them more/fist/grab something, it has the index finger only sightly, not TOO bent as it does detect it touches the index trigger even if it doesn't push it (and extends it to point if you stop touching it, The Lab gets this too) and the thumb matching the position. Overall a much nicer "neutral" pose for when just not doing anything much with your hands. Anyway, it's minor but neat.

I guess with Index they expect you to have an open palm as your natural/neutral given the straps to hold it and only bend the fingers when you yourself wrap them around the controller as it detects them individually, but on other controllers without such straps your default is to hold them and be unable to have a fully open palm at all and the games reflect that. As long as there are no actual open palm interactions I hope SteamVR games do that more and more for Oculus (or basically any non-Index/no-strap) hardware, I guess they could have an open palm as default if the game's about slaps/karate chops.
 
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FunnyJay

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People that do this are nuts.
Ehm..... I did it to 100 % a few years ago.
I'll tell you, not even the riddle trophies were the worst part.
The worst part was hunting down all the different destructible objects per area and destroying them.

But I pushed through, and did it all. And I pretty much Never do that...

(I would most certainly not do it again in that game if replaying...)
 

Wibblewozzer

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Ehm..... I did it to 100 % a few years ago.
I'll tell you, not even the riddle trophies were the worst part.
The worst part was hunting down all the different destructible objects per area and destroying them.

But I pushed through, and did it all. And I pretty much Never do that...

(I would most certainly not do it again in that game if replaying...)
I more specifically meant the requirements for the true ending, which is doing it twice on two different difficulties. Unless that is what you mean. In which I continue to believe that's crazy.
 
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