Community MetaSteam | May 2024 - Wake up samurai, we gonna get this Persian kitty home

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Hektor

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What he has to say this time might have sense, but I still remember the guy from the time he said Silent Hill Ascension would have MILLIONS of regular viewers
That was the internal target for it aswell as for the Borderlands game they are/were working on.
 
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yuraya

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There's a very long but interesting Twitter thread from an ex-Square Enix producer where he talks about how companies arrive at sales targets for games, how discrete AAA games are fighting a losing war for gamers' attention against live service games and why the price of AAA games will (and has to) go up from the publisher's perspective.


Again, it's long but I do recommend that people go through it. For example, near the beginning he gives rough numbers about why a game needs to sell some silly number like 8 million copies at full price to be considered worth making. It gives some perspective on what is currently going on in the industry.

The idea that the only remaining way these big AAA singleplayer games can compete with F2P GaaS is by continuing to increase in price is absolute lunacy.

Good luck with that strategy. Like seriously people will just wait for sales if games become 80$ or 90$. And you will lose even more launch mind share. Marketing will become even more irrelevant and you will dig yourself into a hole.

Also we've seen big games recently find success. Like Elden Ring, Hogwarts, Cyberpunk and BG3. The thing they all had in common was they were multiplat with PC launch day n date.

There is no reason why FF games can't do the same thing. Its a legacy franchise people have loved for decades.

Baldur's Gate was also an old dormant ip that hasn't had entries in forever and it still blew up.

Make good games and release them everywhere. Stop cornering yourself and placing artificial ceiling on your sales potential from the get go....and you will be fine.

Its infuriating to see corporate suits exchange briefcases full of money behind the scenes to get exclusivity and then later blame poor earnings on game prices not being high enough. Like fuck off forever with this bs.
 

STHX

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Also we've seen big games recently find success. Like Elden Ring, Hogwarts, Cyberpunk and BG3. The thing they all had in common was they were multiplat with PC launch day n date.
You forgot a very important point which you also highlighted in your post: the four games you listed are 60$/60€/50£, clearly showing a good price point does miracles to your wom
I don't care budgets are beyond control and it's not my problem. Money doesn't grow on trees and if you ask for more than 60 bucks then you need to justify your game being worth that much. Customers are obviously not buying into the 70 or even 80 price point no matter how much the industry cries about raising costs. And if publishers get desperate and slash prices after a few months, well that just means customers will see even less value in your 80€ offerings
I honestly believe every big publisher is banking on GTAVI to be the one game that will manage to keep the full 80 price tag for the longest without price cuts
 

PC-tan

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The idea that the only remaining way these big AAA singleplayer games can compete with F2P GaaS is by continuing to increase in price is absolute lunacy.

Good luck with that strategy. Like seriously people will just wait for sales if games become 80$ or 90$. And you will lose even more launch mind share. Marketing will become even more irrelevant and you will dig yourself into a hole.

Also we've seen big games recently find success. Like Elden Ring, Hogwarts, Cyberpunk and BG3. The thing they all had in common was they were multiplat with PC launch day n date.

There is no reason why FF games can't do the same thing. Its a legacy franchise people have loved for decades.

Baldur's Gate was also an old dormant ip that hasn't had entries in forever and it still blew up.

Make good games and release them everywhere. Stop cornering yourself and placing artificial ceiling on your sales potential from the get go....and you will be fine.

Its infuriating to see corporate suits exchange briefcases full of money behind the scenes to get exclusivity and then later blame poor earnings on game prices not being high enough. Like fuck off forever with this bs.
My question about BG3. Is what made it so popular?

Or more specifically what was the difference between Early Access and the full game release. The game had been in Early Access for a while, people knew about the game and it almost feels like it was not until the whole bear sex thing that people outside of the target audience? Even figured out that the game even existed.


Also funny joke about the whole bear thing is that even to this day it's brought up when people talk about censorship where you can have a game like BG3 have bear sex but you can't have skimply dressed characters in a game. Were the answers seem pretty straight forward for some cases. These are the two things that I remember from the whole bear sex thing.

Anyway so did that help the game? Since it was made available on PS but the vast majority of the sales were from PC. You did get a Xbox release but that was months later? And that become a whole thing with the XSS having issues with the coop option for the game.


Anyway those other games are multiplatform and they did insanely well on PC (very high concurrent player counts on the weekends).



Now here is a question that I have. It's from that PS Icon Era place. Why is it that PS first party games are able to sell 20+ million copies on PS but yet multiplatform games are not able to sell 20+ million in General or on PS alone? Does marketing have something to do with it? Is there some secret sauce?

I mean look at Persona 5, that was PS exclusive but that didn't sell 10 million copies on PS. That is definitely a tile that would have sold way more had it been multiplatform.

You also has stuff like Nier Automata that was on PS and PC day one. Where PC was like between 30-50% of the sale for the game when it had reached 5 million units sold. Had it been PS only would it have sold nearly as well?

You do have Elden Ring that was able to sell over 20+ million units being multiplatform. But once again what about those Sony or Nintendo first party games that can reach those numbers on one platform alone.


Now let's look at everyone's beloved Bloodborne, despite how much people praise the game it didn't sell over 10 million units on PS4 alone from my understanding (I have not checked in a long time but I think it's now between 7-8 million units sold on PS4 alone (I'd say those are low numbers??) what about Demon Souls (PS5) I don't think that one sold insanely well either, had it at least been on PS5 and PC would it have sold way better? I mean you could say, well the whole point of launch titles is to sell the system..... In which case we'll they were all sold out for over a year? And that didn't really help say Demon Souls, since people couldn't really buy the platform that you can play it on and those that did have a PS5 didn't seem that interested in Demon Souls
 
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Kyougar

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Nov 2, 2018
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You forgot a very important point which you also highlighted in your post: the four games you listed are 60$/60€/50£, clearly showing a good price point does miracles to your wom
I don't care budgets are beyond control and it's not my problem. Money doesn't grow on trees and if you ask for more than 60 bucks then you need to justify your game being worth that much. Customers are obviously not buying into the 70 or even 80 price point no matter how much the industry cries about raising costs. And if publishers get desperate and slash prices after a few months, well that just means customers will see even less value in your 80€ offerings
I honestly believe every big publisher is banking on GTAVI to be the one game that will manage to keep the full 80 price tag for the longest without price cuts
The industry holds its breath until GTA6 releases.
They are blinded by the massive success of GTA5, conveniently ignoring that most of the sales happened in the GaaS stage of that game.

GTA5 sold 40 millions in 1,5 years before it released on PC, sure.
BUT
  • it released on a console userbase of 200 million at the end of the PS360 Generation
  • it rereleased for PS4/XO a year later
  • it transaitioned very fast into a GaaS/Modding platform (most GTA5 vids on TikTok are those bumpy ride in the sky games) early on where most of its 200 million sales come from. You can buy it for cheap for old consoles or PC

GTA 6 will release:
  • on a userbase of 90-100 million people
  • not sure how much the xbox userbase is still actively buying games for their console in 18-24 months, so maybe 10-20 million less userbase for release
  • gaming has changed, much of the console userbase is on evergreen/GaaS games
  • it will probably need the PS5 pro to run good, that further shrinks the available userbase (we will have a few million PS5 pros in the wild at release and it will run on lowpower-PS5 but this will have an impact on the people who don't want to buy yet another console for 500-700 bucks or don't want a slugfest or bad IQ on their low powered PS5
  • lol at Xbox Series X and rofl at Series S


I don't think GTA6 will outright tank at release, but the holy grail, it isn't.

But if the sales are lackluster or "not meeting expectations" I am expecting a minor crash of the AAA(A) 70-80 bucks gaming industry. IF GTA6 can't print money (very fast) then the whole Console AAA "Experience" market will crumble because they thought they could just milk their audience with pretty images and higher and higher prices.
 

yuraya

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Now here is a question that I have. It's from that PS Icon Era place. Why is it that PS first party games are able to sell 20+ million copies on PS but yet multiplatform games are not able to sell 20+ million in General or on PS alone? Does marketing have something to do with it? Is there some secret sauce?
I think just like Nintendo...Sony has that userbase preinstalled on their hardware. People follow them and buy their consoles because they love Naughty Dog and SSM. Also Guerrilla. And they don't care much for anything else that isn't COD/Fortnite/Fifa/2K.

Its always gonna be a battle with 3rd parties because FF die hards for example are everywhere. On PC and even Nintendo. The mmorpg and mobile games also give that franchise a different reach. For some reason Playstation fans talked too much about FF being a PS brand game or wtvr. Bragging about exclusivity n shit. But in the end they didn't put their money where their mouth was. Not to mention Nintendo has as much if not a bigger claim to FF franchise as Sony imo. Its gonna be wild when/if Square starts releasing mainline FF games on the Switch 2 and they outsell the PS versions. You think its toxic now that Icon Era place gonna will get even more dumb.

As for BG3 I think its just the classic case of a dev overachieving with the early access. I didn't buy it in EA but I remember many people speaking very positively about it. Streamers were streaming it as well and everyone was impressed by that 1st act. And when the final game came out and people saw the game is 3-4x larger than the big 1st act...it blew up like crazy. Its a very ambitious game. The sex stuff added to the memes but I don't think it was a much of a sales factor. The strong writing and story telling is what really sucked everyone into the game imo. Its easy to add sex into games but with this industry most of the time its cringe and kinda dumb.
 

PC-tan

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Get ready for Palworld MKII

 

MegaApple

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Sep 20, 2018
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So I got access to ghost of tsuhima via family share and no surpise, the pirated version is less buggy and runs better.
I also played the pirated version to benchmark my PC (runs shockingly well). So actual paid version being worse just sours it.
 
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Mor

Mor

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Sep 7, 2018
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Take this with a grain of salt but Instant Gaming is selling the Kingdom Hearts 1.5+2.5 collection (Steam key) at $43. So maybe $50 full price on Steam?

Dengeki shared official pricing, full package will be $110

The idea that the only remaining way these big AAA singleplayer games can compete with F2P GaaS is by continuing to increase in price is absolute lunacy.

Good luck with that strategy. Like seriously people will just wait for sales if games become 80$ or 90$. And you will lose even more launch mind share. Marketing will become even more irrelevant and you will dig yourself into a hole.

Also we've seen big games recently find success. Like Elden Ring, Hogwarts, Cyberpunk and BG3. The thing they all had in common was they were multiplat with PC launch day n date.

There is no reason why FF games can't do the same thing. Its a legacy franchise people have loved for decades.

Baldur's Gate was also an old dormant ip that hasn't had entries in forever and it still blew up.

Make good games and release them everywhere. Stop cornering yourself and placing artificial ceiling on your sales potential from the get go....and you will be fine.

Its infuriating to see corporate suits exchange briefcases full of money behind the scenes to get exclusivity and then later blame poor earnings on game prices not being high enough. Like fuck off forever with this bs.
In all fairness, it's not that simple and there are a lot of factors in place that can dramatically change the projection of a project even when following the right path. Jacob has a few very solid points there. You mentioned ER, Hogwarts, C2077 and BG3 as examples but all of those had external documents that backed them up, ER was From software, Hogwarts is an incredibly known IP, C2077 was hyped for over a decade and BG3 was a slow process that finished with Act 3 and people were crazy with it.

FF has been shifting identities for a long time and it's in no ones land, old school users are not pleased with some mechanical changes, new users do not know FF that well because they find them extremely long and boring to play and then there's the third group that is fans who will buy and play it no matter what. Overall I believe the problem with FF is their identity crisis and not knowing who they want to please while the other titles knew exactly who they wanted to lure.

Now here is a question that I have. It's from that PS Icon Era place. Why is it that PS first party games are able to sell 20+ million copies on PS but yet multiplatform games are not able to sell 20+ million in General or on PS alone? Does marketing have something to do with it? Is there some secret sauce?

I mean look at Persona 5, that was PS exclusive but that didn't sell 10 million copies on PS. That is definitely a tile that would have sold way more had it been multiplatform.

You also has stuff like Nier Automata that was on PS and PC day one. Where PC was like between 30-50% of the sale for the game when it had reached 5 million units sold. Had it been PS only would it have sold nearly as well?

You do have Elden Ring that was able to sell over 20+ million units being multiplatform. But once again what about those Sony or Nintendo first party games that can reach those numbers on one platform alone.
No secret sauce, it's the same effect as first party titles from Nintendo. Their user bases are well aware of the titles company drops and their marketing works really well, while there's a third element I won't mention cause' it sounds bad but up to a certain point, you need this element to do those numbers.

It's mostly attachment to a certain brand combined with some industrial elements, first party title can invest X millions in marketing and associate a product to a platform, multiplatform titles can invest the same amount but focus will be weaker per platform and depending on the marketing focus, it can even work against certain platforms, it's tricky.
 

Line

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Dengeki shared official pricing, full package will be $110


In all fairness, it's not that simple and there are a lot of factors in place that can dramatically change the projection of a project even when following the right path. Jacob has a few very solid points there. You mentioned ER, Hogwarts, C2077 and BG3 as examples but all of those had external documents that backed them up, ER was From software, Hogwarts is an incredibly known IP, C2077 was hyped for over a decade and BG3 was a slow process that finished with Act 3 and people were crazy with it.

FF has been shifting identities for a long time and it's in no ones land, old school users are not pleased with some mechanical changes, new users do not know FF that well because they find them extremely long and boring to play and then there's the third group that is fans who will buy and play it no matter what. Overall I believe the problem with FF is their identity crisis and not knowing who they want to please while the other titles knew exactly who they wanted to lure.


No secret sauce, it's the same effect as first party titles from Nintendo. Their user bases are well aware of the titles company drops and their marketing works really well, while there's a third element I won't mention cause' it sounds bad but up to a certain point, you need this element to do those numbers.

It's mostly attachment to a certain brand combined with some industrial elements, first party title can invest X millions in marketing and associate a product to a platform, multiplatform titles can invest the same amount but focus will be weaker per platform and depending on the marketing focus, it can even work against certain platforms, it's tricky.
It's definitely more than just "release on PC on see the numbers go up", which has absolutely not been the case for everything (Sackboy, Returnal, the endless failures that were always intended to be multiplat).
It's also more than just "do more marketing".

The simple fact is that by far and large, videogame companies are like the rest of society: rubbish at this capitalism thing.
They genuinely think that everything can do big numbers and bring a lot of money, while it simply... isn't the case.
And there's a million reasons why, say, Final Fantasy is not why it was, but the ultimate factor is that everything has a glass ceiling at any point in time (and that can change! But not because a billionaire wills it).

Upping the prices is not going to magically make those games more attractive, quite the opposite. What we need is sensible budgets and targeting the right demographic, not spending more dozens of billions into the metaverse. If your game costs hundreds of millions of dollars, you can bet you need a good selling plan and correct reading of the market, which sure hasn't been that common... most are stuck in the toddler stage of "seeing something cool on TV" and drawing it poorly.
 

Gelf

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I think just like Nintendo...Sony has that userbase preinstalled on their hardware. People follow them and buy their consoles because they love Naughty Dog and SSM. Also Guerrilla. And they don't care much for anything else that isn't COD/Fortnite/Fifa/2K.

Its always gonna be a battle with 3rd parties because FF die hards for example are everywhere. On PC and even Nintendo. The mmorpg and mobile games also give that franchise a different reach. For some reason Playstation fans talked too much about FF being a PS brand game or wtvr. Bragging about exclusivity n shit. But in the end they didn't put their money where their mouth was. Not to mention Nintendo has as much if not a bigger claim to FF franchise as Sony imo. Its gonna be wild when/if Square starts releasing mainline FF games on the Switch 2 and they outsell the PS versions. You think its toxic now that Icon Era place gonna will get even more dumb.

As for BG3 I think its just the classic case of a dev overachieving with the early access. I didn't buy it in EA but I remember many people speaking very positively about it. Streamers were streaming it as well and everyone was impressed by that 1st act. And when the final game came out and people saw the game is 3-4x larger than the big 1st act...it blew up like crazy. Its a very ambitious game. The sex stuff added to the memes but I don't think it was a much of a sales factor. The strong writing and story telling is what really sucked everyone into the game imo. Its easy to add sex into games but with this industry most of the time its cringe and kinda dumb.
Agree with this, there are certain titles where the fanbase is highly concentrated on a platform because they are exactly the reason they bought the console in the first place. Thats become the cinematic third person adventure game on Playstation. And then there's the additional boost of people who put their whole identity into thinking a first party's titles are the best and will buy most major AAA titles they make. But still when Sony stray outside of that cinematic lane thier fans don't always show up.

Something like Bloodborne is more split though, From games had an audience outside of Playstation, their games blew up with multiplatform Dark Souls, PC and 360 where a major part of its success. There's no way they would have all bought PlayStations. Fans of Japanese RPGs in general are not all on PS anymore, it's not like generations ago when it felt like PS was the default platform and it just got exclusives without even trying. Any 3rd party could be fine being exclusive to PS2 since most people weren't buying an Xbox or GC and PCs were still seen as a different audience.

With that said I still think even the high selling first party exclusives wouldn't lose much from ending exclusivity, some warriors might slow down buying everything because they don't feel special anymore but that would be offset by the new customers. That goes for Nintendo too.

Edit: Extra thought, I suppose being a first party games does provide extra marketing synergy because the big games will often be mentioned alongside news about the hardware, but again that's something less likely to happen with a third party exclusive.
 
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Paul

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I also played the pirated version to benchmark my PC (runs shockingly well). So actual paid version being worse just sours it.
So I got access to ghost of tsuhima via family share and no surpise, the pirated version is less buggy and runs better.
This makes no sense. As far as I know there is no DRM or anything that could make legal version run worse than pirated one. I am playing legal steam version and it runs like a dream. Zero bugs in 22 hours playtime.
 

MegaApple

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This makes no sense. As far as I know there is no DRM or anything that could make legal version run worse than pirated one. I am playing legal steam version and it runs like a dream. Zero bugs in 22 hours playtime.
I read some reddit posts. They deleted the PSN folders and performance got better. PSN is already disabled in pirated version.
All anecdotal, of course.
 
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STHX

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That INDIE Live Expo has been kinda insane honestly. Tons of announcements or release dates. Japanese indies are going all in on Steam lately
Maid cafe simulator:

Signalis in 3rd person:

Rhythm Nicovideo shitposting simulator:

Balatro but anime:

Stylish platformer:

Shrooms:

VA-11 Hall-A-like:

Braid but good:


And these are only a small amount of them
 

Derrick01

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Now here is a question that I have. It's from that PS Icon Era place. Why is it that PS first party games are able to sell 20+ million copies on PS but yet multiplatform games are not able to sell 20+ million in General or on PS alone? Does marketing have something to do with it? Is there some secret sauce?

I mean look at Persona 5, that was PS exclusive but that didn't sell 10 million copies on PS. That is definitely a tile that would have sold way more had it been multiplatform.

You also has stuff like Nier Automata that was on PS and PC day one. Where PC was like between 30-50% of the sale for the game when it had reached 5 million units sold. Had it been PS only would it have sold nearly as well?

You do have Elden Ring that was able to sell over 20+ million units being multiplatform. But once again what about those Sony or Nintendo first party games that can reach those numbers on one platform alone.
There's multiple answers here it's not really a one answer thing. The type of game plays into effect here, a lot of these sony games can appeal to the mass market much easier than something like a jrpg could. I've always found the "all sony games are the same" meme absurd but at a very basic glance they have traits that appeal to the masses...although I think we're entering a period where graphically intense cinematic games are losing their luster a little bit. People are looking for new experiences.

Another answer is in the ps4 gen they were unit stuffing. People like to make a big deal out of Horizon 1 selling 25m units but no one wants to talk how they got those units. The game was $10 by the end of 2017 when the DLC came out and it was also bundled with ps4. I mean yeah when you practically hand the game out it's going to hit 25m copies a lot easier. Gow 2018 had the same thing it was also $10-15 before the end of 2018. Notice how sony doesn't do that anymore with ps5 stuff? Their games hold their prices muuuuuch longer these days and it's also why unit sales have slown down a lot on most of them. Yeah your spidermans and god of wars still explode but horizon FW didn't sell nearly as fast as the first did.

Nintendo is another story entirely they have trained their audience to accept things that every other company wishes they could do. They shovel out some half assed mario party game with 3 maps and charge $60 for it and then that sells like 6m copies at full price despite probably costing nintendo a million dollars to make lol. No one else could get away with doing things like that.
 
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Stone Ocean

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It might be a smaller game from a smaller team so there won't be a lot of talk about it but remember all the talk about suicide squad's GUI? How is this not worse?
Because this, while fairly busy, is still concentrated around the edges of the screen and doesn't interfere with actual gameplay.

Take a look at this and tell me Hotel Barcelona is worse (UNIRONIC EPILEPSY WARNING) :steam_cleanseal:
 
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Dragon1893

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The discourse surrounding videogames just gets worse and worse. I barely engage with it but I always wonder how this hobby can spawn so much hateful discourse. One thing is obvious, a lot of people have way too much time on their hands and unfortunately choose to use it by spreading vitriol online.
In an era where the best way to farm engagement is through outrage, it just becomes a cesspool that never stops growing.
If I worked in this industry I'd probably just stay away from any kind of social media or online community.
 

MonthOLDpickle

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This makes no sense. As far as I know there is no DRM or anything that could make legal version run worse than pirated one. I am playing legal steam version and it runs like a dream. Zero bugs in 22 hours playtime.
Exactly, it makes no sense. Even in the performance tips one of the suggestions is deleting everything PSN and playing the game in offline lol.

It makes no sense. No stutter when I was fighting three dudes next to a giant bonfire but when I stopped to pick up some iron on the ground stutterrrrr.

Also the audio bug is annoying as hell.

Though turns out, most of these issues existed on PS, especially PS5 xD
 

Arc

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The release calendar post-Q1 is so dry that, while waiting for the Elden Ring DLC, I've started playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey. I don't think it's very good, but it's kind of addicting and I have about 25 hours played in a week. The nicest thing I can say is that the game is downright beautiful in parts and it has made me begrudgingly excited for AC Shadows.

I bought this and played it for about 30 minutes. It's awesome but I'm terrible at shmups and you can't endlessly spam continues (you have to use an in game currency to stock up on them).
 
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yuraya

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The release calendar post-Q1 is so dry that, while waiting for the Elden Ring DLC, I've started playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey. I don't think it's very good, but it's kind of addicting and I have about 25 hours played in a week. The nicest thing I can say is that the game is downright beautiful in parts and it has made me begrudgingly excited for AC Shadows.
I played like 10hrs of Odyssey and put it down. It was great but something else came out I think and I abandoned it. I need to get back to it someday.

And I still haven't played Valhalla or Mirage. Haven't played Immortals Fenyx or Division 2.

Or Watch Dogs Legion..

Or Far Cry 6...

Or even the Avatar Far Cry rip off lol

I am so backed up on my Ubisoft backlog I can't even get a little excited for Shadows just yet.

But most of these are on Steam now and I think I will start picking some of them up on deep discounts. From what I saw Odyssey and Valhalla run pretty good on Deck.

Speaking of Ubisoft....Rogue Prince of Persia should be out in a few days too :sweaty-blob:
 
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Dragon1893

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Hi Fi Rush is one of those games that feel perfect for the Deck. It runs like a dream, the colors really pop on the OLED and the game is just polished to perfection. Haven't seen a single stutter, dropped frame or bug.
It's also an easy game to drop in and out of. What a gem.
 
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Le Pertti

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Started playing Red Dead 2 again and wow it still looks so bloody amazing, even without any nextgen patches. But man it was so hard to get into it again after being away a few years, the controls feel so sluggish.
 

didamangi

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Finally managed to get gamepass and download Hellblade 2 just to sadly realize that the game is boring af

you cant win em all
Yeah, just tried it and... force letterboxing and chromatic abomination to the max (fixable with ini edit) and yeah, pretty boring (not fixable with ini edit).

I also quit the first game after a few hours. Oh well. Not for us I guess.
 

gabbo

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Say goodbye to RAM sticks and hello to RAM plates. How will OEM's manage to mount RGB's on them!? :sweaty-blob:
But the front panel connectors are still little pin outs we have to slide caps over... Motherboard and case manufacturers need to sort that one out first please.
 
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