Community MetaSteam | September 2020 - An Offer You Definitively Can't Refuse

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Tizoc

Retired, but still Enabling
Oct 11, 2018
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Oman
ko-fi.com

Trisolarian

Junior Member
Jul 12, 2019
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I couldn't disagree more strongly Trisolarian.

I can totally understand the urge to lash out at a person who you think has wronged you, but that action doesn't usually lead to good outcomes for you or the other person. Thinking about doing it and wishing bad things on a person are wholly separate from actually doing them and then posting the results online as happened here. That shit shouldn't be tolerated and this person clearly needs help. There's no reason to do things like this online or IRL.

Even if you don't care about the results for the other person, then think about what it would do for the person lashing out. These sorts of actions reflect badly ON THE PERSON DOING THEM TOO. Any sane business person sees this outburst and will stay FAR FAR away from this person in the future. So now they have effectively blackballed themselves from any job in this industry. Acquaintances all of a sudden revert to strangers and don't want to be associated with either person. Further isolating them and keeping them in their bubble of sadness and pity. These sorts of actions DO NOT WORK. Don't go down that road. Its bad news all the way down for everyone.

We can all fantasize about doing horrible things to an enemy, but actually doing them ends up being bad for you too. Perhaps worse. Karma is real, never doubt it. I hope this dude gets some help and figures out his life, I pity him.
We'll trade disapproval's on this.

It kind of sounds like you didn't read the behind the scenes making of this game that this guy wrote. The reviewer is a tiny part of this. Bigger are the death of his GF and Father, the social isolation, the cruelty of the internet and the hellscape that is the current indie scene. Bigger and better quality games are selling a percentage of earlier smaller and shittier indie games.

The whole game is a warning to not making video games your day job if you're going alone and solo. Just like people telling you when going into music, especially more niche genres. No one making a fucking living playing heavy metal anymore, NO ONE. They all have day jobs and do the cool metal stuff part time.

Also, I fucking hate it when people flippantly say "hope this person gets help" after trashing them and smugly assuring others that karma will get them. You fucking know how hard it is to afford/find ANY sort of mental health ANYTHING in america? And that was before the shit storm... Been said to me before and always is shitty. No fucking help stopped me from self harming in my 20s, no fucking help will bring back people I've lost recently. People just can't get it through their skulls that mental health 'help' won't fix circumstances and as we're all fucking seeing with COVID19 your mental health won't improve unless circumstances improve and sometimes they just fucking dont.

Again, the reviewer took the mention of his name twice and rallied his friends, just like so many popular bullies in my personal past. Fuck them all. lts been more than five years and if I saw some of my previous co workers in public I wouldn't even fucking look at them. Been 10 years and more and the same with some fucking roommates from college. So someone called you out in a game, How about YOU deal with it.
 

Eferis

MetaMember
Nov 12, 2018
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Folks annoyed by people in mental distress letting it out more than being worried about the reasons that made it happen are always puzzling to me. Also, holy hell how people like to throw the word "entitlement" around a lot these days. It feels almost like we're so accustomed to the image of the bullied guy taking it all and being the irreproachable silent child that either finds the strength to seek professional help or at some point jumps off a building that, every time we see someone express their mental distress in a different way, like a genuine burst of rage, which is certainly a human reaction, we're all there on the front line ready to brand it as "oh so entitled" or "oh so not appropriate".

Case in point. A guy, that also had several tragedies in his life and living in our society that needs you to constantly prove your worth at every turn, decides to put years of effort and total dedication into a project. When the project comes out, it's not particularly well received. It happens. What hurts him the most though is that one particular reviewer, shielding behind the IGN brand, seems to particularly enjoy making fun of the project (and the person behind it). It's not the edgy 90's anymore and snarky idiots maliciously poking fun at other people's work on the pages of video game magazines for the enjoyment of a bunch of stupid readers cannot be accepted in 2020 (and it should have never had in the first place tbh), if you do that, you're being a bully, even more so because you're doing it from a position of power (behind the IGN brand) towards a nameless indie developer. The person you attacked then explicitly calls you out in his raging post? Well, cry me a river. You're not the victim. A bully that eventually gets punched in the face is still not a victim. When it happens it makes people shake their heads in disapproval because we're so accustomed to the status quo of the bully inflicting pain and the bullied silently taking it (or maybe jump off a building so we can all shed a single tear and go on with our days) that when the bullied hits back we're taken by surprise, in shock because then, from our constantly blind state, we're forced to see and actually take notice of people that are in such misery that are actively putting their future in danger in their convoluted reaction.

What the dev did was alright? Nope. But I'm saying this from a rational condition of complete mental tranquillity since I wasn't the one attacked and nothing of mine was at stake in the first place. Is it understandable? It definitely is. Everyone with a lucid mind can understand that this kind of behavior will take repercussions on this person's professional future, but the guy was not in a lucid state at the time so pointing it out is pointless and just the equivalent of mumbling "oh no no no, not appropriate at all" while shaking our collective heads.
 

Alextended

Segata's Disciple
Jan 28, 2019
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People not buying something I made to sell doesn't qualify as bullying. Me expecting that it should sell regardless does qualify as being entitled.

And nobody said lashing back at a reviewer in a post was what showed entitlement. From readng the story I completely missed it even happened.

Reviews that are just mean are bad. Games that are just mean are bad. If it is or isn't healthy to feel so wronged you develop such isn't for me to say.

That reviewer can gtfo. The game looks like shit I don't wanna play. I won't even remember they exist come next week. It is what it is. No annoyance.
 
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fantomena

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Dec 17, 2018
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I tried the demo of Waking (doesn't exist any longer I think) and didn't find it any interesting, fun or intriguing, so I decided to not put it on my wishlist

That simple.
 
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beep boop

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Dec 6, 2018
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I don’t know about Blow—he seems pretty (self) serious—but I bet Fish and McMillen would get a kick out of that game. It looks crazy and rides the line of propriety in a way those two do very often (and not always successfully).
 
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texhnolyze

Child at heart
Oct 19, 2018
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Explain how it's a big deal. They can expand their audience further but what's different between this and other smaller independent VTubers that speak English?
Well, Hololive is a corporation, for a start. They already have a big audience, and people are thirsty for high quality English VTubers.
 

manchego obfuscator

MetaMember
Jan 23, 2020
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EA Play joins PC and Xbox game pass.

worth clarifying for those not aware that EA Play does not include new EA games or DLC, games aren't added until at least 6 months or so after launch

this would be a bigger deal if there were more EA games I haven't played/bought yet that I gave a shit about besides Sea of Solitude and Jedi Fallen Order, the latter of which seems like it might never become available on standard EA Play lol
 

warp_

タコベルが大好き
Apr 18, 2019
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seems like a solid deal for game pass people. last ea game i bought was a $20 key for anthem and before that was probably...mass effect 3? maybe one of the last maddens on 360? so i got a lot to catch up on.
 
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Mivey

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Sep 20, 2018
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worth clarifying for those not aware that EA Play does not include new EA games or DLC, games aren't added until at least 6 months or so after launch

this would be a bigger deal if there were more EA games I haven't played/bought yet that I gave a shit about besides Sea of Solitude and Jedi Fallen Order, the latter of which seems like it might never become available on standard EA Play lol
6 months isn't super long for me, with my backlog I don't really get to games earlier anyway, unless I care about them a lot, and then I'd buy them on Steam anywho.
 
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Trisolarian

Junior Member
Jul 12, 2019
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People not buying something I made to sell doesn't qualify as bullying. Me expecting that it should sell regardless does qualify as being entitled.

And nobody said lashing back at a reviewer in a post was what showed entitlement. From readng the story I completely missed it even happened.

Reviews that are just mean are bad. Games that are just mean are bad. If it is or isn't healthy to feel so wronged you develop such isn't for me to say.

That reviewer can gtfo. The game looks like shit I don't wanna play. I won't even remember they exist come next week. It is what it is. No annoyance.
I'm reacting more to the behavior of the people on twitter, which was how I found out about this in the first place. I didn't make that clear enough most likely.
 

manchego obfuscator

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6 months isn't super long for me, with my backlog I don't really get to games earlier anyway, unless I care about them a lot, and then I'd buy them on Steam anywho.
just be warned that 6 months isn't an exact window. it's usually been roughly 6-7 months for games I paid attention to (I certainly haven't kept track of them all), but it's coming up on 10 months since Jedi Fallen Order launched and it's still only available in the Origin-exclusive Pro tier
 

yuraya

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May 4, 2019
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I wonder if MS gets Ubisoft to put Uplay+ on Gamepass as well in some stripped down form. Might as well try to do it lol.

Also kind of crazy how you pay 25$ per month for Series S and you also get Ultimate which costs 15$ per month on its own. That is basically 10$ per month for console... and it comes with gamepass/EAPlay...... Plus you get Xcloud + PC gamepass on the side. And the hardware is yours after 2 years of paying.
 
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Trisolarian

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I wonder if MS gets Ubisoft to put Uplay+ on Gamepass as well in some stripped down form. Might as well try to do it lol.

Also kind of crazy how you pay 25$ per month for Series S and you also get Ultimate which costs 15$ per month on its own. That is basically 10$ per month for console... and it comes with gamepass/EAPlay...... Plus you get Xcloud + PC gamepass on the side. And the hardware is yours after 2 years of paying.
So, when you cancel your sub, do you send the console back?

Are there any details on this program?
 
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warp_

タコベルが大好き
Apr 18, 2019
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So, when you cancel your sub, do you send the console back?

Are there any details on this program?
you can't cancel the game pass sub cause there isn't one. they just give you a console and a 24 month gamepass code in your email. friend of mine did all access through best buy for the x1x and it seemed like a solid deal. you do have to do a credit check at the start since it's just a two year, 0% loan from a bank.

they have info on the current gen version of the program on their site, but i imagine most of it will apply to the next gen too
 
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yuraya

MetaMember
May 4, 2019
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So, when you cancel your sub, do you send the console back?

Are there any details on this program?
Its interest free financing so yea you just send it back and maybe they hurt your credit score a bit. Don't really know how it works now with current consoles.
 
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fantomena

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Dec 17, 2018
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If though I don't plan on getting an Series S or X as I have a One X already, no doubt that I love all these choices MS is giving people. Fantastic job my MS.

They get my money on PC anyways.

They just need to fix the shitshow that is the game pass backend or add tgame pass to Steam so I can actually use it.
 
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manchego obfuscator

MetaMember
Jan 23, 2020
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I wonder if MS gets Ubisoft to put Uplay+ on Gamepass as well in some stripped down form. Might as well try to do it lol.

Also kind of crazy how you pay 25$ per month for Series S and you also get Ultimate which costs 15$ per month on its own. That is basically 10$ per month for console... and it comes with gamepass/EAPlay...... Plus you get Xcloud + PC gamepass on the side. And the hardware is yours after 2 years of paying.
I don't see Uplay+ being added per se unless they announce a cheaper tier for more platforms, but I could see MS reaching a deal for some of Ubi's back catalog, sure
 
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lashman

lashman

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Sep 5, 2018
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... and after that it'll be exclusive to stadia ... after stadia - switch ... after switch - origin exclusive ... and after that the license will probably expire, so they won't release it on anything else

:toucan:
 

fantomena

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Dec 17, 2018
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... and after that it'll be exclusive to stadia ... after stadia - switch ... after switch - origin exclusive ... and after that the license will probably expire, so they won't release it on anything else

:toucan:
They are selling the game to platforms and storefronts, not customers.
 

Mor

Me llamo Willy y no hice la mili, pero vendo Chili
Sep 7, 2018
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... and after that it'll be exclusive to stadia ... after stadia - switch ... after switch - origin exclusive ... and after that the license will probably expire, so they won't release it on anything else

:toucan:
I'm not even going to say how I feel
 

Cacher

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Jun 3, 2020
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Both Watch Dogs Legion and Assassins' Creed Valhalla launch on Nov 10. Ubisoft, I don't know if it is a good idea tbh.
 
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Arsene

On a break
Apr 17, 2019
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... and after that it'll be exclusive to stadia ... after stadia - switch ... after switch - origin exclusive ... and after that the license will probably expire, so they won't release it on anything else

:toucan:
Im not sure whats shittier. Delaying the Steam version and making the game exclusive to ANOTHER storefront. Or telling those who bought it on EGS that they have to either wait 7+ months or rebuy the game on another storefront on the SAME PLATFORM to play the new update.

Wonder how Sony and Epic feel about this since a game they both paid for exclusivity on gets an superior version releasing exclusively on a competing platform
 

Panda Pedinte

Best Sig Maker on the board!
Sep 20, 2018
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Im not sure whats shittier. Delaying the Steam version and making the game exclusive to ANOTHER storefront. Or telling those who bought it on EGS that they have to either wait 7+ months or rebuy the game on another storefront on the SAME PLATFORM to play the new update.

Wonder how Sony and Epic feel about this since a game they both paid for exclusivity on gets an superior version releasing exclusively on a competing platform
The update isn't coming to EGS only to the Windows Store? What a shitshow.
 

Stone Ocean

Proud Degenerate
Apr 17, 2019
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... and after that it'll be exclusive to stadia ... after stadia - switch ... after switch - origin exclusive ... and after that the license will probably expire, so they won't release it on anything else

:toucan:
Taking notes from SNK I see
 

Swenhir

Spaceships!
Apr 18, 2019
3,534
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Also, I fucking hate it when people flippantly say "hope this person gets help" after trashing them and smugly assuring others that karma will get them. You fucking know how hard it is to afford/find ANY sort of mental health ANYTHING in america? And that was before the shit storm... Been said to me before and always is shitty. No fucking help stopped me from self harming in my 20s, no fucking help will bring back people I've lost recently. People just can't get it through their skulls that mental health 'help' won't fix circumstances and as we're all fucking seeing with COVID19 your mental health won't improve unless circumstances improve and sometimes they just fucking dont.
On point. Not only is "getting help" immensely hard and more often than not harmful and humiliating in the medieval field of mental health, the way people smugly say that as an insult hurts everyone else, stigmatizing the need for help for the onlookers.

Folks annoyed by people in mental distress letting it out more than being worried about the reasons that made it happen are always puzzling to me. Also, holy hell how people like to throw the word "entitlement" around a lot these days. It feels almost like we're so accustomed to the image of the bullied guy taking it all and being the irreproachable silent child that either finds the strength to seek professional help or at some point jumps off a building that, every time we see someone express their mental distress in a different way, like a genuine burst of rage, which is certainly a human reaction, we're all there on the front line ready to brand it as "oh so entitled" or "oh so not appropriate".
[...]
The person you attacked then explicitly calls you out in his raging post? Well, cry me a river. You're not the victim. A bully that eventually gets punched in the face is still not a victim. When it happens it makes people shake their heads in disapproval because we're so accustomed to the status quo of the bully inflicting pain and the bullied silently taking it (or maybe jump off a building so we can all shed a single tear and go on with our days) that when the bullied hits back we're taken by surprise, in shock because then, from our constantly blind state, we're forced to see and actually take notice of people that are in such misery that are actively putting their future in danger in their convoluted reaction.
Exactly. When Anthony Bourdain commits suicide, everyone goes on about mental health and asking for help. The problem is, nobody wants to help. It has to be someone else's problem. Out of sight, you cripple. Don't bother us, and especially don't ask us to think about what the problems actually are. You are the problem. You have to get help. God forbid the problems are unmet needs, a society that in its shadows stabs at you over and over again while nobody says a thing, or worse, pushes you down.

Fighting back is something people need to start recognizing and thinking about. It's often looking "bad" because of the emotions involved, and it's almost always devoid of context. You haven't seen what the person has gone through. You have no idea of the things that were done and often it was subtle, hard to prove because society has internalized and been gaslighted about a lot of bullying tactics. "Stop being so sensitive". "You are overreacting". Outright minimization and dismissal. And in the end, this hurts everyone because you are increasingly less allowed to fight back, so instead you bottle it up and many people crack, spreading that helplessness around.
 

Durante

I <3 Pixels
Oct 21, 2018
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Explain how it's a big deal. They can expand their audience further but what's different between this and other smaller independent VTubers that speak English?
In addition to what tex said, I think people might underestimate the impact and growth of Hololive (vtubers in general, but Hololive in particular).
And I don't just mean growth in viewers or subscribers, but growth in revenue as an industry.

Over the past half year or a bit more, Hololive has turned from a business that probably had a Youtube revenue in the tens of thousands to one that has millions per month, just in Youtube superchats.

In fact, if you look at a global ranking of superchat revenue across all of Youtube, Hololive occupies 9 of the top 15 channels. And that's with basically purely Japanese content. In the global ranking. Across all of Youtube.

Given the current rate of growth, there are 2 major options:
  • Vtubers have reached or are close to reaching a saturation point; they are a lucrative but still ultimately niche idea that primarily works in Japan.
  • Vtubers are turning into one of the biggest new entertainment formats in 2020, maybe the largest change to that landscape since the advent of "normal" streamers.
I really don't know which of the two it is, but the Hololive EN announcement probably gets us closer to finding that out, so it's interesting.
 
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