Community The MetaVerse VR thread (hardware/software/etc, all platforms)

ISee

Oh_no!
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Regarding FO4VR, I spent ~26 hours playing it so I can comment.
Which movement option did you chose?

Teleportation works fine.
Continuous movement forward and back + stutter for turning left and right works also well enough.
But continuous turning left and right is wrong. The game world doesn't move correctly, it immediately made me feel sick. Even my first day in Lone Echo wasn't that bad.
 
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Durante

Durante

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I never use artificial rotation in any game, so I could well have missed that.

In FO4 I used teleportation most of the time.
 
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Alextended

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I don't like UploadVR any more but they've secured exclusive stuff for their holiday showcase, like the Budget Cuts 2 launch trailer apparently, so, gotta watch.

Some pretty good gameplay from Boiling Steel, coming soon. Spoilers obviously (I don't care for story but cool events and cool sequences you go through).
 
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warp_

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this looks to have some strong vomit inducing potential. cables for link come in today so assuming they work i'll be able to give it a shot tomorrow
 
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Alextended

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I wish Dr Beef would port his stuff to PC dammit, lol, others who have wanted to do HLVR and such mods have been lagging behind if they're doing it at all.

Quake II probably works out better than other Quake games, kinda slower paced. Pretty sure there's a Quake 1 VR mod to play.

Doom 3 on PC wasn't quite there (maybe similar to this but none of it seems to hold a candle to Lambda1VR.
 
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warp_

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Oh I just realized this is Quest wireless only (hence the name Quake2Quest duh). Guess I'll have to figure out how to sideload stuff now!
 
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Alextended

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How does strafe jumping work in VR?
Theoretically the exact same way it works out of it. VR FPS have pretty much the same basic movement control schemes normal FPS games do. Analog stick is WASD, a button is jump and your own body/head the camera view, plus the additional element of independently aiming with your hands all over the place or physically crouching and leaning and such. With that you'd hold a side on your analog stick and press the jump button in the same way to strafe jump. Whether someone can handle doing that consistently in Quake (or any game with such speed and actual strafe-jumping-boosts-you-non-physics) while aiming his weapons 360 degrees in 3D space instead of using a mouse is another matter. Nobody's gonna play Quake VR and be competitive with people out of VR, it takes a wholly different player skillset, which is cool in everyone-is-in-VR games. It's not more efficient than the simplified mouse controls or anything, just more fun, like aiming a real/airsoft/paintball/light gun is not as simple and easy as it is with a mouse but gives you a wholly different challenge and satisfaction.
 
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knch

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I've been using a i7-6900K + GTX 1080 for my HTC Vive. Are there any reasons to be concerned about upgrading to the Valve Index (Larger resolution, 120Hz+, etc.)?
I haven't had any problems with my Index on 2700x + 1080. I could, however, not up the details and AA to the max in the boiling steel beta, but default looked more than good enough already and performed just fine.
 
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Amzin

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OK, I am starting to run into some of the tracking limitations of Odyssey+ as I broaden my VR horizons. Namely, Zero Calibur - I had some issues with it on first go but played a couple levels and you have to really focus to keep your "hands" in view in a shooter where you have to reach for magazines / grenades / holster. Like I can make it work fine it just feels a little less natural.

I wish we knew if the HL:A / Index "special" 2019 bonus stuff was marketable or not because if I could sell that off it'd make it a lot easier to offset the cost in my case.

After showing my girlfriend VR we were talking about games and there's some serious potential holes in VR games for someone to release a decent product. Namely, whatever Harry Potter would be (some kind of wand-magic-spell-game), and an Avatar: TLA world game would be fantastic, but considering where business support for that IP is I don't expect to ever see it which is a shame. Seriously considering how to make a game just for that but do not have the time or energy even in optimal weeks :p
 

Alextended

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That's mainly why I keep pushing Rift S as the lower (than Index) end solution and only go to WMR when price is more of a factor. It seems to track well for FPS.

But as long as you can work around it by adjusting your style with WMR it's okay. Many games don't have features that require much off-screen tracking.

There are a few good wizard type games in VR but nothing on the level of say, a Harry Potter action/adventure/RPG, more small scale focused stuff, some are PVP spell slinging stuff and others linear action romps with various spells. The Wizards is decent of the latter type and is getting a semi-sequel soon.

I like the simple spells in Vengeful Rites, an indie early access RPG, too. I'm not sure which of the PVP stuff is best, maybe Wands or The Unspoken.
 
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EdwardTivrusky

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After showing my girlfriend VR we were talking about games and there's some serious potential holes in VR games for someone to release a decent product. Namely, whatever Harry Potter would be (some kind of wand-magic-spell-game), and an Avatar: TLA world game would be fantastic, but considering where business support for that IP is I don't expect to ever see it which is a shame. Seriously considering how to make a game just for that but do not have the time or energy even in optimal weeks :p
There was Ghosts of Hogwarts released on Oculus Share which has since shutdown but you may find a link to it on a fileshare somewhere.

I haven't tried this yet but here ya go: Ravenclaw Common Room VR on itch

 

Amzin

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But as long as you can work around it by adjusting your style with WMR it's okay. Many games don't have features that require much off-screen tracking.

There are a few good wizard type games in VR but nothing on the level of say, a Harry Potter action/adventure/RPG, more small scale focused stuff, some are PVP spell slinging stuff and others linear action romps with various spells. The Wizards is decent of the latter type and is getting a semi-sequel soon.

I like the simple spells in Vengeful Rites, an indie early access RPG, too. I'm not sure which of the PVP stuff is best, maybe Wands or The Unspoken.
Even though I could have just bought an Index from the get-go if I really wanted, I had no exposure to VR so wanted the best/cheapest option for basically Beat Saber, which WMR is great for. I think for most people it's fine too, as you say not many experiences get you to start doing stuff "off screen" as it were.

I had Wizard on my wishlist already but Vengeful Rites I hadn't seen. Might be a bit much for her but might be fun for me.

There was Ghosts of Hogwarts released on Oculus Share which has since shutdown but you may find a link to it on a fileshare somewhere.

I haven't tried this yet but here ya go: Ravenclaw Common Room VR on itch

That Ravenclaw thingy looks really interesting, thanks! Didn't realize there were VR things like that.
 

Oldschool PC

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My headset arrived today, but I probably wont keep it
  • VR looks extremely blurry in motion. Transitioning from my 144hz g-sync monitor is disorienting.
  • It takes up too much space. I had to rearrange my entire room and get rid of many items.
  • Motion controls are unintuitive for the genres I like to play (oldschool shooters, fighting games, RTS, turn-based strategy, adventure games).
 

Alextended

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I'd give it more than a day, imagine you're holding a controller for the first time in some ways, but yes it's mostly opening up new experiences rather than converting old ones to VR, not in 1:1 equivalents at least (cockpit games generally don't need much adaptation though, racing, flying, space combat etc., though when they take full advantage of VR like VTOL VR does it's a beautiful thing too). For fighting you get stuff like The Thrill of the Fight or Blade & Sorcery (and nothing PVP just yet) and for adventuring stuff like Red Matter or Lone Echo which all work very intuitively and naturally but they're most certainly not Street Fighter or point & click conversions. For PVP FPS the closest you'll get to old school is probably Space Junkies. Echo Combat is great with its zero gravity freedom as well but I guess I wouldn't call it old school in the same way as Space Junkies, it's quite a different beast despite the similar theme (I certainly find it better but not for instant action, there's more to it) . Personally I generally prefer realistic FPS like Onward and don't think they're less old school (if anything more so, everybody's going for all out action stuff these days even if the themes are realistic, while we used to get good shit like Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon and SWAT back in the day, Onward is a bit like that). For singe player I find Stormland has the most freedom of movement of all between climbing and gliding and hovering and all that stuff which makes you feel almost like Iron Man but it's not at all old school in design, Half-Life: Alyx will probably be the most traditional on that front.given the series roots in adventure and puzzles and not exactly Quake-like shooting but somewhat slower paced, more down to earth systems, which should translate great with Valve's efforts to properly, fully take advantage of VR. The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners looks similarly meaty though.

Old The Thrill of the Fight trailer cos it shows how it works better, the game is a little prettier now.

VTOL VR (I believe you can use a physical joystick if you want for that part).

DiRT Rally.

Red Matter.

Lone Echo.

Space Junkies (though I rather play all this standing).

Echo Combat.

Stormland.

You've seen Alyx so here's Saints & Sinners.

No (reasonable) solution to the res/hz problem, that's up to the user, I go back and forth fine. Though Index does have an 144hz mode and Pimax higher res, you'll be hard pressed to have the hardware to run the most intensive games at such modes natively without concessions elsewhere in other settings.
 
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ISee

Oh_no!
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It's so strange that settings are so limited in VR games.

Sure, fast and persistence frametimes are more important then ever before with VR. But this is high end, niche gear operated by enthusiasts. Please at least give me a resolution slider, because it's incredible how much better VR looks when being down-sampled, even when running on the lower res rift S.

Also no idea if it is true, but rift S is just 80Hz, because 80fps is more easy to reach? Why not implement a 80Hz and 90Hz option then? Index seems to do it.

It's like they are developing PCVR for people that don't want to be bothered by what makes PC great in the first place. Customizability and the ability to adjust the gaming experience to your liking. But then again, people tend to max out everything and then complain about performance. I don't know anymore.


Oldschool PC which headset did you buy (just out of curiosity)?
And have you tried my new messiah of PCVR demos? Batman Arkham VR? You can get it for 5 bucks over at cdkeys.com.
I mean, Alextended is putting so much effort and knowledge into his VR post and I'm just sitting here and lazy recommending Batman to everybody. Like that's going to fix the issues of somebody who is mainly playing, cool, old stuff. But I think it is very convincing (the game, not my posts).
 
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Alextended

Segata's Disciple
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That's what they said for the S, yeah, it was to keep similar requirements between S and original Rift. Higher resolution, less framerate. Such a cop out though.

SteamVR settings can be used to downsample but I'm not sure how they interact with Oculus and if that applies, I'd rather games just included the option too.

Non VR games too that is. It's much nicer to do and test it when you fire up a game rather than have to set it on your nvidia driver or wherever else afterwards.
 
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ISee

Oh_no!
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I'm a bit cautious about boneworks.
Left & Right, traditionell turning (with sticks) is killing me currently. No matter where I tried it and it is not getting better. Stutter turning on the other side works fine though.
But stutter turning is a bit immersion breaking and I don't like having to use it (I'm nitpicking here) and Boneworks seems to be designed around free moving/turning and that's fine. I'm just not sure I'll be able to handle it.
 

C-Dub

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Dec 23, 2018
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I think stutter turning is okay depending on the game. But it really is a stopgap as you find your feet. I think the best way to get by is to just immerse yourself in the full turning until it doesn't make you sick.

May take a while, though, and certain games may just continue to make you sick.
 
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Oldschool PC

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Put a few more hours into VR today and am even more certain that it's not for me. Every 15-20 minutes I need to take a break or else I feel dizzy, and now my controllers are having tracking issues which I don't know how to fix. The games are also very expensive for how little content they offer.

I definitely see the potential of VR in the future, but it still has a long way to go before I'm ready to jump on board again.
 
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Alextended

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Which set did you get? If they didn't have tracking problems before why would they later? But yes no reason to push through feeling uncomfortable hence why people recommend familiarizing with VR with simple free apps like The Lab initially before going to the full games with more movement options/gameplay. I don't think anyone can make an FPS like Onward or other complex games their first VR experience and come out unscathed, But it only takes a week to adjust and take on any locomotion method as long as you hopefully don't have actual motion sickness issues that probably can't be resolved for now if ever.
 
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ISee

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Put a few more hours into VR today and am even more certain that it's not for me. Every 15-20 minutes I need to take a break or else I feel dizzy, and now my controllers are having tracking issues which I don't know how to fix. The games are also very expensive for how little content they offer.

I definitely see the potential of VR in the future, but it still has a long way to go before I'm ready to jump on board again.
If you are feeling dizzy, take a break for the day. Do not go back in 4h later. I rushed into free movement unprepared and paid for it. Trying to brute force the problem is not something that can be done. 25 minutes was all I was able to stomach on my first day, and even on my 7th day more than an hour isn't a wise idea. This isn't a question of will power, your brain is recognizing movement through your eyes, but the inner sensors of your ears do not report anything. The result is your brain going nuts.
But if it really doesn't get better or you just don't feel like trying. Send it back, no harm done. Maybe give it a try in a year or two, when better headsets are available.
 

Oldschool PC

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Which set did you get? If they didn't have tracking problems before why would they later? But yes no reason to push through feeling uncomfortable hence why people recommend familiarizing with VR with simple free apps like The Lab initially before going to the full games with more movement options/gameplay.
Odyssey+. The reviews warned that the controllers and tracking are shit, but it was the only one in my price range., I took your advice and downloaded The Lab before purchasing any games, so that saved me money at least.
 
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Alextended

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Okay, but as reviews warned like that why would you extrapolate into VR as a whole not being ready yet just because a lower end solution wasn't quite there? For you yes, no pressure into making you like it, but the tech is fairly mature overall and there are plenty great games (again, not for your specific taste perhaps). Honestly, I wouldn't have even tried it if I was you without any specific game that interested me if I only cared for "old school" genres and game templates in 1:1.
 
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Durante

Durante

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  • VR looks extremely blurry in motion. Transitioning from my 144hz g-sync monitor is disorienting.
Space and motion controls are somewhat subjective (and game-dependent) issues, but this one is extremely surprising to me.

VR HMDs are generally designed for absolutely minimal pixel persistence. Most have a persistence of ~1ms (actual, not marketing), which at the very least matches the best any 144 Hz monitor can do with ULMB-like technology enabled. (The Index in particular goes a step further to sub-millisecond persistence with some patented Valve low-persistence tech)

It could be that the Odyssey is particularly bad in this regard -- sadly I never tried it since it's not available in the EU. If so, I'm surprised I never read about this issue before. Interesting. Is it an OLED-type blur which affects transitions from black to dark shades?
 

Amzin

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I've not noticed any blurring with my Odyssey+, it could be something with the particular PC / software setup. And I too have a 1440p 144hz monitor for my normal stuff.

I agree that VR games need to add more graphics options. And also stick with established terms, because some of them (looking at you, Zero Calibur) are super unclear what some of the existing options are.

To comment on something Oldschool PC said above, I wouldn't really recommend VR for anyone looking for just a different way to experience what they already are playing. There's a few games you can swap back and forth between VR and normal with which maybe are exceptions but those are mostly flying / space / racing games and in my experience I prefer the higher fidelity of a monitor in the long run there (Everspace VR I thought would be intense but the graphics were so bad I stopped after like 60 seconds). Get VR to play VR games, specifically - if they don't interest you, VR probably doesn't interest you yet.

HL:A won't be the same experience as playing an FPS, just like Beat Saber is not the same as playing Guitar Hero. Pavlov isn't the same as Counter-Strike despite the obvious inspiration.

Oldschool PC not trying to put words in your mouth, it was just something that popped into my head with what you said about unintuitive controls for games. VR controls are probably always going to be a bit less consistent than other input devices, which is annoying.

Side rant about something else, but it's frustrating that even in a totally new format with totally new rules, rhythm game devs still feel the need to include game "features" from quarter-eating-arcade-game days of DDR. Bugs the hell out of me that we still haven't moved past that.
 
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Eferis

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A couple of positively rated VR games at their historical low. Might be a good introduction for those (like me) who just bought or will buy a headset.
 
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Alextended

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Don't make Windlands 2 one of your first games, lol. It's good though :D

But I wish that kind of locomotion was in other games, it's almost made like a puzzle game later on, it's hard to swing from point to point with the right momentum or to go ever higher as necessary in later levels, which to me at least makes it less fun as I guess I'm not that good in figuring out a path, while the same exact locomotion but in a game where the locomotion isn't half the point, just a means to an end, like a spiderman game perhaps where you can swing from any part of a building rather than the specific green points, trees and what not, as in Windlands 2, it would be amazing and freeing.
 
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warp_

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Grabbed Serious Sam 3 VR in the Steam Sale. Figured even if I don't like it, it's only $5.

Really hoping for a discount on Superhot in Quest store but something tells me that isn't going to happen.
 
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warp_

タコベルが大好き
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I wonder if song licenses stop that from going on sale? Or maybe just that it's the most popular VR game so they don't have to drop it in price lol

Also just remembered Steam's excellent refund policy...this will make trying out VR stuff easier for sure.
 
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EdwardTivrusky

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Why don't you want your Facebook pages full of high scores, leaderboards, friend requests and notifications of what song someone is playing and a link to where you can buy it? Sounds really social to me.
 
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Alextended

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I doubt people even want a Beat Saber 2 whether it comes from Oculus or not. The game itself can be infinitely expanded with new modes and songs, that's about enough, the days of yearly music game sequels releases have long passed with the likes of Rock Band and Guitar Hero. I think it's actually a wrong, or rather fruitless acquisition if the studio didn't have a different all new game in the pipeline that interested Facebook enough to do this (and I don't even know if as a studio they have what it takes for repeated success, Beat Saber could have been a fluke, now they sell and take the money and run before the bubble bursts), not that the game won't keep selling to every new VR user for forever (and I don't think they'll lock patches and DLC to Oculus stores, that's just gonna cause a shitstorm they don't need or stand to benefit from) just that it doesn't have anything to add any more beyond its own continued success and a trajectory that is pretty much known already. But oh well, they own them, they can do whatever, just like Sony bought Insomniac so we won't be getting more PC VR games from them through Oculus which also sucks, but it happens, it's not like Epic bribing finished 3rd party games to not release on other platforms. As for modding, they were always gonna want to limit it whether they were bought by Facebook or not, you can't sell DLC if everybody has all their favorite songs. If anything maybe Facebook money will get people more dlc content they care for and wouldn't otherwise be able to afford to bring to the game, who knows?

Edit: I thought I remembered people clamoring for mod support or patches breaking mods in the past so I did a quick google search it's full of results like this:
So it seems it was always a cat and mouse game, maybe it's been settled for some time or something due to less significant patches (though that article is just a few months old) but if they do such stuff again it's clearly not just facebook's idea and they're always dabbling in it in an attempt to sell DLC and stuff instead.

Edit: and the faq last edited in summer 2018 says this:
Update broke my mods. What should I do?
If you were running mods and are having issues after the update we would like to inform you that all currently available mods are not official (not made by us) so we can't really help you when they stop working and we can't provide much support. It is because every mod right now is more like a hack to the game because Beat Saber never provided a way to be properly moddable like you may know from other games. Please contact authors of your mods to provide the support and please wait until they update them for the current version. We will also try to help with this as much as possible.
 
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AHA-Lambda

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There are now more opinion pieces coming out favouring the Rift S over the Quest for PC gaming and it's making the choice between the two all the more difficult :anguished-face:

Hmm, wireless options vs increased fidelity :unsure:
 
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Amzin

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I actually already had a negative review on Beat Saber because it's really not that great without custom songs added to the pool. I'll just disable auto updates and hope people keep plugging away, but if Facebook fuck with it too much someone else will just make a simple mod-friendly rhythm sword game I imagine
 
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