Rules must change on crowdfunding organisations else less people will back games if there are incidents of greedy devs breaking promises.
News Epic Games Store
- Thread starter Blizniak
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In this particular case, I wouldn't understand a backer that is not asking for a refund. I mean the game will be F2P, you can get your money back and still play it if you want to, not harming the studio because they won the egslottery.
So why not, even if you're ok with this EGS move ?
Looks like Mechwarrior 5 is hot garbage too.
Influencers seem to mostly like it, but the general tone on forums is rather harsh. People dislike the voice acting, the story, the UI, the AI, but the most important criticism is about the enemy spawns.
Especially later parts of the game seem to spawn an incredible amount of enemies all around the player, sometimes even directly into their backs (weakest parts of mechs!). People seem to have a lot of trouble dealing with it. The game constantly spawns enemy mechs, tanks and helicopters and no matter how good you are or your mech building skills. At one point in time you'll be overwhelmed and people do not even have time to deal with mission objectives.
Instead of a simulation, with mech synergy and exciting combat you are getting a ticking timer and guaranteed overkill.
The "funny" thing is: There was an article (a long time ago) about PGI fixing their "spawns", because during first prototypes the "AI director" killed players directly at the beginning. Seems like they didn't really fix it and decided to role with a broken system.
Another community baked game that went EGS exclusive the last possible minute and ended up being of questionable quality. I begin to wonder if mid sized devs are dumping their games on EGS, once they begin to understand that their core game systems are flawed and maybe even unfix able.
Epic is starting to turn into a garbage dump, instead of a tempting dictatorship.
Influencers seem to mostly like it, but the general tone on forums is rather harsh. People dislike the voice acting, the story, the UI, the AI, but the most important criticism is about the enemy spawns.
Especially later parts of the game seem to spawn an incredible amount of enemies all around the player, sometimes even directly into their backs (weakest parts of mechs!). People seem to have a lot of trouble dealing with it. The game constantly spawns enemy mechs, tanks and helicopters and no matter how good you are or your mech building skills. At one point in time you'll be overwhelmed and people do not even have time to deal with mission objectives.
Instead of a simulation, with mech synergy and exciting combat you are getting a ticking timer and guaranteed overkill.
The "funny" thing is: There was an article (a long time ago) about PGI fixing their "spawns", because during first prototypes the "AI director" killed players directly at the beginning. Seems like they didn't really fix it and decided to role with a broken system.
Another community baked game that went EGS exclusive the last possible minute and ended up being of questionable quality. I begin to wonder if mid sized devs are dumping their games on EGS, once they begin to understand that their core game systems are flawed and maybe even unfix able.
Epic is starting to turn into a garbage dump, instead of a tempting dictatorship.
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Small correction, but Phoenix Point was also Fig, not Kickstarter.
Outer Wilds as well.
So far, there have been more Fig games "snatched" by Epic, than Kickstarter-funded games.
But the whole point of Fig wasn't to get a share of revenue based on sales ? How does it work when EGS snatch the project ? Backers get money up to the guaranteed sales number Epic gives ?Small correction, but Phoenix Point was also Fig, not Kickstarter.
Outer Wilds as well.
So far, there have been more Fig games "snatched" by Epic, than Kickstarter-funded games.
Deleted member 113
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Don't quote me on that, since the only campaign I backed of the affected ones was Phoenix Point, and after that announcement I just asked for a refund, and I haven't followed anything about it since, the game (and developer) are "dead" to me.
But, according to other websites, it seems investors (not backers; a backer just gets the promised rewards; investors are the ones that get a return based on sales/profit) did indeed get a return based on Epic's initial money.
For example:
Snapshot Games reports 191% return on Phoenix Point following Epic Games Store deal - MCV/DEVELOP
"Snapshot's distribution agreement has brought in significant resources"
www.mcvuk.com
Thanks for the linkDon't quote me on that, since the only campaign I backed of the affected ones was Phoenix Point, and after that announcement I just asked for a refund, and I haven't followed anything about it since, the game (and developer) are "dead" to me.
But, according to other websites, it seems investors (not backers; a backer just gets the promised rewards; investors are the ones that get a return based on sales/profit) did indeed get a return based on Epic's initial money.
For example:
Snapshot Games reports 191% return on Phoenix Point following Epic Games Store deal - MCV/DEVELOP
"Snapshot's distribution agreement has brought in significant resources"
I'd forgotten all about this game and now it's going EGS i'll forget all about it again as it slips back under my radar.
At least people are offered refunds and as has been said, if it's going F2P on Epic money then why wouldn't you request your money back?
Of course they do, they get 5% of each sale if people are using their referrals. Epic actually turned steamers into paid shills.
And you all called me crazy when I said that the devs would be coding to let the game look cool instead of making it fun. There are now several examples of this on EGS.
Maybe they believe that they're selling to Epic and no one would actually buy them with the intention of playing them.
Supergiants narrative that EGS was the best place for Hades' Early Access is bullshit. There have been dozens of successful EA games on Steam. The only reason that they did EA on EGS is because Epic paid them to do so. The fact that Supergiant keeps making up other reasons angers me more than the exclusivity deal itself. 
Frankly, the one reason Hades was early access was a loophole to get Epic to fund the development while side-stepping their exclusivity window.
In that regard early access on Epic probably was the best move. It's not like they've really done much with early access other than develop the game they were already developing regardless. I don't think community feedback had any impact on this game's development at all.
In that regard early access on Epic probably was the best move. It's not like they've really done much with early access other than develop the game they were already developing regardless. I don't think community feedback had any impact on this game's development at all.
Yup. Selling to rich fucks instead of the rabble. With no incentive to fix the game, develop it further or just making it fun (apart from their own desire to prove themselves, build an audience or for the love of the genre)
But there are mostly entitled assholes who think they deserve a million-seller and, in the end, would make more money flipping burgers.
Yeah that's kind of shitty, EVERYONE knows WHY they did it and I'm ok with them doing EA over there, I even bought it once it came to steam and was happy to see how glad they were with the reception... but please they didn't have to start feeding me bullshit.Supergiants narrative that EGS was the best place for Hades' Early Access is bullshit. There have been dozens of successful EA games on Steam. The only reason that they did EA on EGS is because Epic paid them to do so. The fact that Supergiant keeps making up other reasons angers me more than the exclusivity deal itself.
It does't review well.
Do they say anything about Epic these days? I look at their Twitter and it's all about Steam release.Supergiants narrative that EGS was the best place for Hades' Early Access is bullshit. There have been dozens of successful EA games on Steam. The only reason that they did EA on EGS is because Epic paid them to do so. The fact that Supergiant keeps making up other reasons angers me more than the exclusivity deal itself.
I saw many people in my friendslist playing Hades. I wouldn't be surprised if the game sold better on Steam than on EGS already.
Easily so. I would bet on it.
And without selling out every sales guarantee, any sale on EGS would be lost money.
I would love to hear from Supergiant that they made more money on Steam than on EGS because of the amount of sales... Or from any studio that buying on EGS after Epic gave money for exclusivity is money for Epic, not the studio.
A glimpse of honesty, that would be refreshing.
not going to happen ... none of them want to burn that bridge ... in case they need Tim again for their next game
I know
But that makes every statement without stating that obvious truth irrelevant. I can't help but blaming them for being hypocrites.But that's because I'm kinda angry today
So Hades seems to be doing well now its on Steam but Ashen not so much? Seems like certain types of games or games by certain popular devs will sell after the year of egs but those unproven / lesser known ones may struggle. I hope they saved some of the payout.
I do wonder if Ashen wasnt a year old it might have sold better (i probably would have bought it).
I do wonder if Ashen wasnt a year old it might have sold better (i probably would have bought it).
Ashen is also still broken ... full price ... doesn't even include DLC ...
so ... you know ...
pretty sure annapurna just pocket all that cash they get from Tim for all those gamesIs it? Thats shit.
Egs money allows devs to make better games better for customers
I think the major difference is that Supergiant already had a huge fanbase on Steam because of their previous games. I've always believed that exclusivity deals on less popular platforms makes it harder to create a healthy fanbase.
I mean Hades is an Early Access game. It was when it came out on egs and still is. It's not a completed game and has been continuously improved, so it's still "fresh". Ashen is a seemingly mediocre game that is now a year old but is still priced like a new release, people have moved on.
I feel that a number of EGS exclusives coming to Steam in the coming months won't have the same reception that either Hades or Ashen are having now. Instead they will be more like Hide & Seek, you know, with 12 reviews after a week.
for most of the smaller games? absolutely
i imagine the big ones will sell kinda/sorta ok (but probably still nowhere near what they would have sold if they were released 12 months earlier)
April
What's the next eggy to come to Steam? I look at the Steam and outside of Operencia devs are super quiet, even tho there should be a big batch of games in January.
I mean, yeah, big games like Borderlands 3 and popular indies like Satisfactory and Rebel Galaxy Outlaws will do just fine. The problem is that there's a lot of games getting out of the exclusivity deal in the first half of the next year that will mostly perform like Hide & Seek. Operencia, Dangerous Driving, Shakedown Hawaii, Genesis Alpha One, etc. Those are dead in the water, hoping that a daily deal might help them later the year.
After all, 2020 is packed as hell, and those games have no way to fight the new releases coming to Steam day one.
Genesis Alpha One I believe
yup, all of those are very very dead ... no chance any of them will sell even remotely good when they come to steam
ESPECIALLY Dangerous Driving and Genesis Alpha One
This game is ded (unironically). I know I slightly missed with Ashen, but that one is straight up mediocre, 67 on MC is not something I'll rush to buy.
I think outside of AAAs the only real seller on EGS that might do decent on Steam is WWZ, but they don't want to compete with CS, Destiny, PUBG and Warframe, I don't expect them to get on Steam even after a year.
Outer Wilds has amazing reviews, and appears in numerous GotY rankings, so this one should be good for Steam.
Other hits would be Control, Manifold Garden, Satisfactory, Observation, Anno 1800, Metro Exodus, and Griftlands.
Kine, Ooblets and Journey to the Savage Planet are niche, but could do well.
Untitled Goose Game could do well, but I think the hype will have died down.
I don't know what to think about Tetris and Superliminal. I am sure that I am missing other promising games.
Other hits would be Control, Manifold Garden, Satisfactory, Observation, Anno 1800, Metro Exodus, and Griftlands.
Kine, Ooblets and Journey to the Savage Planet are niche, but could do well.
Untitled Goose Game could do well, but I think the hype will have died down.
I don't know what to think about Tetris and Superliminal. I am sure that I am missing other promising games.
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Yeah, I think Outer Wilds will be one of the few performers on a level of Hades. No way I'm buying it anywhere close to full price tho, only lower than historical low on EGS.
You know, I think that some of these devs and smaller pubs went on this year believing that Epic would constantly sign big exclusives like they were doing earlier this year, so when their own deals came to an end they would have plenty of space on Steam still. You know, until 2021 ~ 2022 we would be having a repeat of the first semester of 2019, which means that for games like Dangerous Driving, they could take Tim's money and then in a year get another almost guaranteed cash injection since Steam would be dry of new launches.
This of course backfired right in their faces. The latest exclusives announced for EGS are lackluster as hell, with the biggest ones being Godfall, which is almost a year away, Predator, which is looking damn rough, and maybe, maybe Surgeon Sim 2, but apparently most people still don't know it exists.
As lashy said, these games are VERY dead. I really hope some of these devs / smaller pubs learned how to budget the money they got because damn I can't see shit like Cardpocalyse having 1/10 of the success that Hades is having now in a year. Hell, imagine how fucking bad Dangerous Driving will perform if they release it on Steam right after their deal end, between the weeks of April 9th to 16th, going head on with Cyberpunk and RE3Remake. Not that it would do well anyway, though.
Hell, to make things even worst: some of these ex-clusives will compete with other ex-clusives too (or will be eaten by the bigger ones, like Borderlands 3 which will also be coming in April along with Dangerous Driving).
Look, I don't wish bad for any of these games, I just don't care at all. But damn, for some of these devs their one-time moneyhat from Tim can end having some multiple long-term consequences.
This of course backfired right in their faces. The latest exclusives announced for EGS are lackluster as hell, with the biggest ones being Godfall, which is almost a year away, Predator, which is looking damn rough, and maybe, maybe Surgeon Sim 2, but apparently most people still don't know it exists.
As lashy said, these games are VERY dead. I really hope some of these devs / smaller pubs learned how to budget the money they got because damn I can't see shit like Cardpocalyse having 1/10 of the success that Hades is having now in a year. Hell, imagine how fucking bad Dangerous Driving will perform if they release it on Steam right after their deal end, between the weeks of April 9th to 16th, going head on with Cyberpunk and RE3Remake. Not that it would do well anyway, though.
Hell, to make things even worst: some of these ex-clusives will compete with other ex-clusives too (or will be eaten by the bigger ones, like Borderlands 3 which will also be coming in April along with Dangerous Driving).
Look, I don't wish bad for any of these games, I just don't care at all. But damn, for some of these devs their one-time moneyhat from Tim can end having some multiple long-term consequences.
As it should. Supergiant and Brace Yourself were smart to sell Tim half finished products and then be back on Steam basically telling how sucker co-financed their games for Valve to reap the benefits in the end. But if you were selling a fully developed game for an entire year somewhere else and then expect it to be a blockbuster on Steam you're being delusional, unless your game is highly anticipated AAA or unique indie nobody would care, and it's your own damn fault.
EGS failed as a store, its just the Fortnite launcher that gives free games for the majority of people, the pubs/devs that took the deal expecting EGS to be this major shift that Timmy promissed got the shaft, and I'm ok with this.
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For most developers, they need to do something for the Steam release that gets attention on their game. Hades is lucky inasmuch as it's the first good 12 month EGS-exclusive, so a lot of people were curious about it and how it sold.
But a lot of developers will need to give Steam customers something extra to make the year wait worth it. Something like all the DLC bundled in with the game, a significant day 1 discount, not to mention having every Steam feature ready to roll from the get go (achievements, Steam Input, trading cards if Valve lets them, Steam Remote Play touch-screen support, and so on) plus a year's worth of support and updates or people will just pass it up.
I feel sorry for the Ashen developer, as their publisher clearly sold them out. Annapurna's strategy seems to be release games they know will sell well on Steam (Telling Lies and Sayonara Wild Hearts) and if they think the game is going to tank they'll take some of that Epic money. Shows how much they think of what Epic is doing, frankly.
But a lot of developers will need to give Steam customers something extra to make the year wait worth it. Something like all the DLC bundled in with the game, a significant day 1 discount, not to mention having every Steam feature ready to roll from the get go (achievements, Steam Input, trading cards if Valve lets them, Steam Remote Play touch-screen support, and so on) plus a year's worth of support and updates or people will just pass it up.
I feel sorry for the Ashen developer, as their publisher clearly sold them out. Annapurna's strategy seems to be release games they know will sell well on Steam (Telling Lies and Sayonara Wild Hearts) and if they think the game is going to tank they'll take some of that Epic money. Shows how much they think of what Epic is doing, frankly.
The thing with games like this is that once you've seen the memes, you pretty much saw all the game has to offer.
I enjoyed the stuff I saw on Twitter but I don't have the urge to actually play it myself. The same goes for other meme games like Goat Simulator, though. So maybe it's more of a personal thing since I don't enjoy sandbox (?) type games where you have to create your own fun.
Untitled Goose Game isn't anywhere near as interesting to play as even Goat Simulator, however. They could've made a game where you legitimately feel like a mischief maker - instead they just gave you a bland puzzle game that's funny in the trailers and leaves you feeling rather cold to play it.
I really wish it had more open-ended gameplay, because the game doesn't make you feel funny or clever as you're just following instructions, so the payoff is really in watching the trailers and the memes.
Yep. Its another one for me that I probably would have bought at the time of release due to the buzz about it but now the moment has passed and it'll go on the list to buy when its dirt cheap.
I think Hades is essentially the perfect storm of getting the best of all worlds - self published (some devs are supposedly not seeing EGS money because of publishers signing them), early access (game is relatively finished now on Steam I think but still not done and dusted), established fairly well known dev on Steam, released with a discount and a bonus game, and the game is quite good with pretty broad reach, and not on game pass. There are essentially no other titles meeting all those criteria, most other ones when released on Steam will rely on just a portion of those factors and I don't expect the controllable one (launch discount) to be done "correctly."
I just finished Goose Game on X1X on game pass. It was boring and quite dissapointing. It's basically a puzzle game where you have a list of stuff you are required to do before enterign the next area, 1 hour game. I expected that I could wreck havok and go berserk, but none of that.
I am actually excited for Operencia, tried it on game pass and really liked it.
I am actually excited for Operencia, tried it on game pass and really liked it.
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