|OT| Genshin Impact - Breath of the Elements

Ascheroth

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However I am a bit bothered by the balance, even more so in the area: while they will up the Geo chars next patch, you can sorely feel that some elements are underpowered; Cryo notwithstanding since it's not their area; but with my heavy Electro and Hydro team, it's not easy and really annoying, on top of not really having the DPS of Diluc and Klee and the like.
At least I have Bennett which I like a lot, but still... Pyro is yet again far superior to everything else and it's not a nice feeling.
Yeah, Pyro being so much better than every other element is annoying.
Not only do they have some of the best DPS chars in the game with Diluc and Klee, there's Bennet who's a bonkers support, their double element resonance is a straight Atk% increase, they have the best damage reactions in the game, the new area favors them in exploration and the hardest content in the game right now with Abyss 12 heavily favors them as well.
Pyro is stacked.

I sorely hope they change some elemental reactions/resonances and have new content for other elements as well,
 

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
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Yeah some resonances being shit is an issue, Hydro is laughable, Electro is mostly terrible, Anemo is almost pointless beside exploration, Cryo is ok at least...

But it's also the rock/paper/scissors at work here.
Pyro is the best element against Cryo, fair enough.
It's also the best against Hydro, outclassing Electro (which in general is just wank, try hitting an Hydro shield with electro, it does almost nothing, unlike Cryo/Pyro/Electro shields which melt in three hits of their weakness) .
And the only one that has an effect on Dendro.
Add Diluc/Klee also destroying Geo, and it's just ridiculous. They are the best at almost everything, it goes much further than just tweaking numbers to fix that.
 

Ascheroth

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Game seems to be in favor of me getting Ganyu :O


Normally I'd be eh about getting a 5* weapon instead of a character, but I wasn't even halfway to soft-pity so I consider this a win.
 
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Durante

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I spent all the free pulls I got (40 or so) and the only really useful thing that came out of it was a Sucrose dupe. Which is OK I guess, she's easily my favourite burst support and all her constellations are great, but the sheer amount of completely useless (to me) 4* weapons I pull on standard wishes is really annoying. Looking back I wish I had pulled harder for Klee on her banner.

Salt aside, all the new content is really nice and got me back to spending far too much time on this game.
 
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Ascheroth

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I spent all the free pulls I got (40 or so) and the only really useful thing that came out of it was a Sucrose dupe. Which is OK I guess, she's easily my favourite burst support and all her constellations are great, but the sheer amount of completely useless (to me) 4* weapons I pull on standard wishes is really annoying. Looking back I wish I had pulled harder for Klee on her banner.

Salt aside, all the new content is really nice and got me back to spending far too much time on this game.
Eventually you get a character that uses one of these 4 star weapons, gotta think long term! 🤞

Rumors are that they're going to re-run the Venti banner after Xiao and Hu Tao in 1.3, so potentially Klee too then. You'll get her then :steam_pigblanket:
But since that's still a while away, gotta take it with a grain of salt.
Still, considering they clearly can't keep up with the character output since there are no new 4stars this patch, it only makes sense to assume they'll re-run banners sooner rather than later.
 

TioChuck

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Got back into the game after a month, had some primogens waiting, rolled 10 pulls on the new banner got the new geo guy, rolled 10 pulls on the normal banner because I got a bunch of it because of the characters level up gifts and got Keqing, :neutral-face:
 

Ascheroth

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Today is the day to get weapon ascension mats for the Festering Desire.

So now Bennett is the first character to have a level 90 weapon, lol. The 1.5 enhancement exp bonus is too good to pass up. (I have 2 others at 80/90 but it costs way too much weapon exp normally, so I'd rather get other weapons up to speed first).
 

Panda Pedinte

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I just noticed that Mihoyo updated their site so now you can check some account status like how many of each kind of chest you opened, how many characters you've unlocked and so on.
 

Ascheroth

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I just noticed that Mihoyo updated their site so now you can check some account status like how many of each kind of chest you opened, how many characters you've unlocked and so on.
You know I never actually looked at that site before. But the statistics are really cool.

I tried abyss floor 11 today and actually did it with 7 stars :evilblob:
What an improvement compared to last round where I ended at floor 9 with 5 stars lmao.
Noped right out of floor 12 though :grimacing-face:

 
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Durante

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That event Cryo Regisvine is pretty hard. It's interesting to see what's basically the easiest boss (at least for me) go from a <1 minute rather brainless battle to something challenging that actually requires you to pay attention.
 

Line

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Dec 21, 2018
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The new boss is a bit annoying, but Amber makes it a cakewalk just stay under the bubble when it uses blizzard, and pop the corolla.
Otherwise, it's a bit of a waiting game for the three AOE phases.

Anyway, good rewards for no resin, but the story started nice and got really, really dumb. The boss spawning because a dude was too cold and too dumb to avoid the mystical purple light, just no.
 

Durante

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Yeah, it's interesting how much better the main location story is compared to the event story. The whole sword part plus the repeatable event challenges certainly feel tacked on. IMHO the meteor event was much better in that regard.
 

Line

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Last event did reveal some real interesting stuff, and the interactions with Mona and Fischl were fun.
Not only do we learn nothing of value, but Sucrose is... pretty flat, and Albedo is just uninteresting.
 

Ascheroth

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Yeah, Albedos character story was again pretty good, but the Festering Sword plotline is a real stepdown from the Fischl event.
I fully agree with the reason behind the boss appearing being just incredibly stupid.

Talking about the boss, it's a weird difficulty spike compared to the previous two phases, which were really easy.
It was kind of annoying at first until I understood its mechanics, after which it was doable but still kind of a pain because a misstep usually just meant everyone dying. Barbara is a real liability in cryo fights, but she's also the only healer that can heal off-burst. Ugh.

Ended up doing it in co-op with a friend and 2 randos. Took a bit until we had a decent team and flow going, but after that it was fine. Well, except the times it glitched out in like half a dozen different ways. At least dying in co-op doesn't really matter, because my level 60 Bennett, who was by far the most useful here because of the event sword gets pretty much one-shotted by everything.

Here's a list of glitches we encountered:

- One time we got rid of its barrier, but it immediately got downed and somehow invulnerable, so we had to suicide with the endlessly spawning minions to restart. Then we restarted, and this time there weren't even shields up, like it was a continuation of the previous bugged run.

- Another time, we stayed in the shield waiting out the storm. It ended, we got out wanting to do some damage to the corolla. It immediately summoned another storm. No waiting, no shield spawning. Just instant death.

- Sometimes the indicator for the shield thingy location doesn't appear.

- One co-op partner fell through the floor when claiming the reward. Twice.

- Another co-op partner froze to death despite staying right beside a warming pillar thing.

- And not a glitch per say, but it's incredibly frustrating when you teleport yourself back in after dying and spawn right on top of a cryo area that instantly kills you again.
 

Durante

I <3 Pixels
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Yeah. I think it's mostly not even that this particular event is especially buggy -- it's more that coop is quite wonky in general and has always been (in terms of synchronization, enemy positioning, triggers, etc. etc). However, nothing you play in coop so far has actually been particularly challenging. This battle can be (depending on your party of course), so it becomes much more obvious when something goes wrong.

I also played it with a friend today and we had various random people join (I don't think it's possible to prevent that?). Some clearly knew what they were doing and others not so much. At one point we had a great flow going in a party of 3, where we cleared it several times in less than 3 minutes each, and once in something like 2:25. That was neat.
 
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Line

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I don't want to roll on the current Banner, even if I want Bennett C1 and wouldn't spit on Fischl and Sucrose (though I don't use them right now).
So I ascended my Noelle to 60, got one last "easy" fate, rolled it on the permanent banner.

And I got Bennett C1.
:illuminatiblob:
 

Ascheroth

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Upcoming event schedule, apparently (dunno if official or leaked)

Lost Riches gives a pet seelie as a reward.

Talking about events, the conclusion to the Festering Desire story was really underwhleming. Event story started pretty alright, but really cratered in the 2nd half, unfortunately. The Fischl event was vastly better in that regard.





I also decided to work on getting my main carries to 80/90, since that is a guaranteed improvement in a finite time compared to artifact hunting.
But jesus the drop rates almost broke me.


This should be illegal at AR50 for 40 resin.
You need 6 gems = 18 chunks for ascention 6. Both of these drops combined are just 1,07 chunks for 80 resins. Things actually started out fine and I got a couple chunk drops, but then it just kept getting worse and it feels like I've been only seeing drops like that.
So I went back to artifact farming for Diluc, because getting a few more drops like these and I would have likely started seriously considering just quitting for good. This shit is demotivating as hell.

And Diluc has a decent 4 piece witch set now!
It's not amazing, but going for amazing is a fools errand as well in this game, so I'm content with settling for "not completely garbage".
He does something like 15-22k melt crits and 10-17k vaporize crits with his elemental skill without buff shenanigans. Biggest number was a 32k melt crit against an ice slime with his Burst (+ 2 or so individual 6k hits, his burst has multiple hits with different scaling). Though I probably had a buff going on there, I think.
And his elemental skill and burst are basically up all the time. :evilblob:
 
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Line

meh
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Yuuup, bosses are a big joke at AR50. And you're not even guaranteed a 5* artefact untilAR55, which is just the cherry on the poop cake.

And for the events I can confirm their authenticity on account of being... in the mail mihoyo sent last month. :tightly-closed-eyes:
 
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Line

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Welp, I might roll some on the banner.
I need supports far more than main DPS, and all three 4* are very good at that. Kinda want to bring my Noelle up to speed, a tanky healer would be welcome.

Also, it probably means that Xiao's banner in three weeks will have Barbara, and I'm good, only got her 8 times already.
 

Ascheroth

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That's almost what I expected. Guessed Xinqiu and Xiangling, but my 3rd guess would have been Ningguang - since story connection to Ganyu and would have made the banner entirely Liyue, like Albedo was entirely Mondstadt. But Noelle hasn't been on a banner for a long time, so it makes sense.

I wouldn't mind a C1 Xinqiu and/or C1 Noelle while I try getting Ganyu. (will only need 12 - 27 pulls though, so not many 4 star pities.)

Xingqiu is amazing on his own and he pairs really well with Diluc too. Noelle becomes a much more viable healer at C1.
Already have Xiangling at C3 but not really using her much anymore, since I lots of better DPS characters now.
I'm trying to transition her into reaction support, but haven't gotten to that yet.

Yeah, Xiao will almost definitely have Barbara now. Probably also Rosaria or another new 4 star.
 

Line

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Seems like Rosaria is far off, and likely to be a 5* now. And there's no 4* in beta or anything hinted at, they're all (starting with Yao Yao I assume) quite a while away, at least 9 weeks away.

Xiao/Hu Tao will have Barbara/Ningguang/Beidou/Diona for sure, they will be the last for a full rotation (Barbara in particular, as she should have been on Ganyu's banner, but of course things are bit flexible)...
If they don't add the old guard of Amber/Lisa/Kaeya to the character banners.

But I definitely could see the Mondstadt team appearing for the Venti rerun, which should happen relatively fast now, as the beta server doesn't have much to show (except Ayaka, and she's months and months away).
 

Dandy

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I wish this was just a $60 game and you could play whatever characters you wanted. Maybe unlock them as the story progresses? The aggressive gambling and grinding just drives me away.
 

Ascheroth

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Seems like Rosaria is far off, and likely to be a 5* now. And there's no 4* in beta or anything hinted at, they're all (starting with Yao Yao I assume) quite a while away, at least 9 weeks away.

Xiao/Hu Tao will have Barbara/Ningguang/Beidou/Diona for sure, they will be the last for a full rotation (Barbara in particular, as she should have been on Ganyu's banner, but of course things are bit flexible)...
If they don't add the old guard of Amber/Lisa/Kaeya to the character banners.

But I definitely could see the Mondstadt team appearing for the Venti rerun, which should happen relatively fast now, as the beta server doesn't have much to show (except Ayaka, and she's months and months away).
I'm still not convinced Rosaria will be a 5star.
I still think she was supposed to be an accompanying 4star for Albedo (shows up in the story for a bit, the Dragonspine spear seemed to be made for her).
Sure, they could be turning her into a 5star character, but at one point this game needs new 4star characters.

I think Venti re-run will be after Xiao and Hu Tao, yeah.

I wish this was just a $60 game and you could play whatever characters you wanted. Maybe unlock them as the story progresses? The aggressive gambling and grinding just drives me away.
On the one hand, that would be nice. On the hand, I have no illusions that this game would exist at this scale if it weren't gacha.
And as far as free2playability goes, I am far less frustrated with this than with F2P systems like all these MMOs where as F2P you have bullshit inventory limitations, equipment enhancement and stuff like this.
While you have no 100% control over the characters and weapons you get, there is no limitation at all in terms of gameplay and story and exploration and it's not like you don't get plenty of characters.
I've put 5 bucks into it at the very beginning and currently have a roster of 2 five star characters and 14 four star characters (that's all except 2) + 1 lucky 5 star weapon and like 120 pulls saved which is another guaranteed 2 five star characters.

I just accept that 1) I will never have every single 5 star character and 2) looking at it long-term I will get lots if not all currently existing characters in due time, if I still play at the time.

While I do not understand how someone could ever spend hundreds or even thousands of monies to gamble for characters or weapons, as long as they are happy who am I to judge.
Whether someones spends 300 monies in a year to buy 5 AAA games day one, a hundred games for cheap or in bundles, or spends them on a single service game isn't really a difference as long as they are aware of what they are doing and not financially hurting. It's all "wasted" entertainment money at the end of the day.
 
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Ascheroth

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Man this team is a lot of fun.

(I edited out Venti stunning the thing because that's boring).
Bennett burst for damage buff.
Venti swirls the applied pyro to decrease pyro resistence.
Xingqui Burst for constant hydro.
Diluc vaporizes everything.
 
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Durante

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I've been thinking about the gacha aspect of this a bit lately, and what it actually means for the game.
And I've found out that it somewhat supports one thing I enjoy in gaming which used to be common but is extremely rare today due to the proliferation of information on the internet. Way back in the day, people were often working independently on their characters, skills and overall build in games, and a lot of individual routes were explored. These days, especially in long-lved/service games, the metagaming aspects get explored rapidly and there soon is community consensus on the "optimal" approach, at least most of the time.

However, in a game like Genshin, where both equipment and even the very units you can use are strictly gated, everyone has a different set of tools to work with. And especially due to the party aspect and all the elemental combinations, everyone to some extent ends up in a "unique" position where they have to think for themselves what to do with the resources they happened to acquire. There are still lots of common "best practices" of course, but it's not as simple as just following a prescribed recipe directly (unless you are a massive whale and literally spending thousands on the game, but I doubt that's a huge percentage of the player base).

Now don't get me wrong, gacha is still fundamentally predatory, and dangerous for those who get sucked into spending huge amounts of money on it. From a F2P perspective though, I believe it might actually make for a bit more interesting individual strategizing than if everything were available to everyone.
I thought that was an interesting aspect to consider.

Now, should I pull on Ganyu.....

Fake edit: I read the last few posts after writing the above and see that Ascheroth touched on a similar train of thought.
 
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Panda Pedinte

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There will be a new event called The Hypostatic Symphony
 
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Line

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Weeell I did some rolls, brought Xiangling to C6, Noelle to C3, got Xingqiu C1.
It's ok I guess.
But my 5* wasn't Ganyu... it was Mona. And I'm not so sure about that. :thinking-face:
 

Durante

I <3 Pixels
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Mona is cool too. One of the random 5-stars I really want (together with Kequing and Jean).

I also ended up pulling. I wasn't too far from pity, and as a Xianling main the possibility of getting more of her constellations was an additional incentive.

Also, it looks like Ganyu is a pretty good F2P character, because her constellations aren't essential to her function. And she can be used either as a charge arrow DPS or Cryo support (in a huge area) both of which seem useful in a variety of scenarios. And I had a Skyward Harp lying around as my only 5 star weapon (which I really hated, because it ate my pity on the standard banner), and this way I can get some good use out of it.

At least those were all the justifications I created in my head. It could also be that I like her design, and felt like finally pulling for a 5 star I want after mostly saving up since the start of the game.

Anyway, I was ~25 pulls from pity, and I think it took at least 24 for a 5 star to show up. But luckily it actually was Ganyu. And on the way there I was also pretty lucky, with 2 Noelles (which I don't use but OK) and 2 Xianglings so now I have her at C5. Her C6 isn't actually too great for any of my team comps so I won't pull for it -- it might just randomly happen one day.

Now on to spend 20+ Fragile Resin farming ascension materials, talent materials and weapon ascension materials for that damn Harp.
 
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Line

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I have everything needed for a crazy Pyro team.
Except a good Pyro DPS. :weary-face:

On the other hand, I have the full Hydro and Electro sets now. My Keqing is happy, but I want more options though :negative-blob:

And Ganyu seems pretty busted. People were calling her a crappy support, but with her short CD her burst is crazy, and she's just a carry too, with insane stats.
 

Ascheroth

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Weeell I did some rolls, brought Xiangling to C6, Noelle to C3, got Xingqiu C1.
It's ok I guess.
But my 5* wasn't Ganyu... it was Mona. And I'm not so sure about that. :thinking-face:
I got Qiqi. Which is great, because I now have a good healer that doesn't freeze me when going up against Cryo enemies, hurray.

...And I know I said I'd probably leave it at that, but uh.... after giving Ganyu a try during the trial and her quest and seeing some numbers... I said screw it and spent some (well quite a few lol) of my primos on her guaranteed pity.

I also got Xiangling from C3 to C6 and Xingqiu from C0 to C5 along the way. Not a single Noelle lol (I would have liked her C1, but oh well).

I will now be busy for a while to gear up 2 new characters 😅
 

Ascheroth

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God these seelies are adorable.



Also I'm having a ton of fun roaming the overworld with Ganyu. Qiqi is a godsend for collecting Violetgrass and Qingxin flowers, and I've found quite a few chests by using the compass while doing that and killing things. Don't even need to user her Burst or set up any buffs or reactions, I just snipe things and use her elemental skill to get enemies away from her if they get too close.
Only cryo enemies (obviously) and geo/dendro shields are a bad fit for her.

At level 70/80 with a level 90 Amos bow, level 7 normal attack talent and 2 maxed gladiator artifacts + 1 maxed Cryo damage goblet + 2 almost unleveled Cryo artifacts (all of them far away from great substats) she deals like 8k with the charged shot itself and 15k with the AoE damage afterwards :sweaty-blob:
I want to get her a full cryo artifact set in the end, but that will probably take a long time, my luck hasn't been great here.

I'll probably spend the next time on talent books whenever they are available and split the rest of the time between Cryo Regisvine and artifact farming. (and probably some Mora leylines every now and then, because I'm almost broke now, haha).
She'll likely be my first character at 80/90 (well I guess I could ascend Razor right now if I wanted to, but don't really want to for now) :dmcblob:

I also did the Oceanid for fun and as expected she completely trivializes it. Went from most annoying to barely worth mentioning, lol.
 
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Ascheroth

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Details for the Cube event that will start tomorrow:

Each challenge has different buffed up characters, like it was during the Fischl event:


Difficulty modifiers:



Rewards:





Looks to me like a testing ground for future permanent end-game content.
Customizeable difficulty and high-score tables makes a lot of sense.
 
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Line

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Pretty cool stuff, choosing your own multipliers but being pushed to use certain characters is definitely the way to go.

I like that the primogems rewards are easy to get too, if you want to try for more you get good stuff, but you won't be stuck like a lot of people in Abyss 11-2 right now.
 
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Line

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Yeah, trying the Spiral Abyss, utterly impossible with my team.
It's not even the protection that's an issue. I don't even reach it.
It's, yet again, the elements.

I only have electro and hydro, which means I cannot even hit half the fucking mobs with one character. I CONSTANTLY get electrocuted by my own skills applying buffs, it took me SIX minutes to complete 11-1.
And that's with desperately juggling with Xiangling and Bennett, they do their job, they're not just not DPS. Xiangling by herself is my number one DPS BY FAR, despite having shit stats, shit artefacts (and a Noblesse oblige set), and just... auto attacking. Same thing that Razor can do, with more damage, but no use of his skills because there's electro mobs everywhere.
Tartaglia, Keqing, Beidou, Barbara and Fischl are pointless (in the first part that is, the second is faceroll), my only cryo is Diona (and she does fuck all with stamina degen, Amber has more use... but then one electro fatui means the timer is gone).

So, I'm fucked. Sure, I can go sloooowly with auto attacks and of course I have Venti to pack mobs (without him and Guoba, I Don't think I can even clear the first room in time).. but then I just die?
I can't do reactions, so I mostly have to stay out of the melee, I can pew pew with Fischl and try to go in with Razor and Noelle when there's an opening.

My choice is to either convert Xiangling and Benett to mains but then everything else suffers, or try to bring Amber and Kaeya up to speed.

Always, always the same problem: you don't have pyro, you can get fucked. With an extra dose of fuck you because you don't have cryo either.
And electro and hydro are both absolute trash, and they are entirely the reason why their strong characters are just strong and not OP like Ganyu and Diluc.
 

Panda Pedinte

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I need to stop being lazy and farm better artifacts and the materials needed to upgrade my characters and weapons :anguished-face:
 

Ascheroth

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Yeah, trying the Spiral Abyss, utterly impossible with my team.
It's not even the protection that's an issue. I don't even reach it.
It's, yet again, the elements.

I only have electro and hydro, which means I cannot even hit half the fucking mobs with one character. I CONSTANTLY get electrocuted by my own skills applying buffs, it took me SIX minutes to complete 11-1.
And that's with desperately juggling with Xiangling and Bennett, they do their job, they're not just not DPS. Xiangling by herself is my number one DPS BY FAR, despite having shit stats, shit artefacts (and a Noblesse oblige set), and just... auto attacking. Same thing that Razor can do, with more damage, but no use of his skills because there's electro mobs everywhere.
Tartaglia, Keqing, Beidou, Barbara and Fischl are pointless (in the first part that is, the second is faceroll), my only cryo is Diona (and she does fuck all with stamina degen, Amber has more use... but then one electro fatui means the timer is gone).

So, I'm fucked. Sure, I can go sloooowly with auto attacks and of course I have Venti to pack mobs (without him and Guoba, I Don't think I can even clear the first room in time).. but then I just die?
I can't do reactions, so I mostly have to stay out of the melee, I can pew pew with Fischl and try to go in with Razor and Noelle when there's an opening.

My choice is to either convert Xiangling and Benett to mains but then everything else suffers, or try to bring Amber and Kaeya up to speed.

Always, always the same problem: you don't have pyro, you can get fucked. With an extra dose of fuck you because you don't have cryo either.
And electro and hydro are both absolute trash, and they are entirely the reason why their strong characters are just strong and not OP like Ganyu and Diluc.
Floor 11 is a special kind of hell.

Though you should be able to get past 11-1 with just Venti constantly Bursting, he pretty much kills all the slimes on his own. And then have someone else finish the stragglers (physical Razor for example), plus someone for the Hydro mage, like Kaeya. As long as you don't go into the water, you don't get electro-shocked.
That's how I did it when the new abyss opened. Completely and utterly failed 11-2 though, like not even 0 stars, straight up couldn't even protect the monument and failed.

But yeah, Abyss completely favors certain elements/characters. I've tried it again today and I can basically solo 11-1 with just Ganyu now, which allowed me to put Venti into team 2 and I barely made it past 11-2 (still 0 stars though) and even 11-3, but only 1 star so no floor 12 for me.
Floor 9 and 10 are basically again pyro or gtfo. (which is shorthand for bring Diluc or Klee for a walk in the park).

When I got oblitered by 11-2 on my first try I just said "yeah fuck this, I'm outta here". Reading up on it a bit, I find it an interesting idea in theory though?
Since apparently it's more like a puzzle, where you can manipulate the AI in your favor. But only in theory. In practice it sucks, because there is nothing in the game, that is even remotely similar, so there's probably no way to even notice this on your own if you're not a complete hardcore player, so you'll either need a guide (and probably still a certain team regardless) or have the units and equipment to just brute-force it (which surely is a thing).

I'm not really too big of a fan of Abyss in general and only casually try a few times towards the end of a cycle to see how much further I can get compared to last time, never even managed to unlock floor 12 so far.
 

Line

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Problem is, my Venti is not even remotely built for shit, I kept him as the vacuum cleaner he is.
So I can kill things, after a while. But when 5 out of 6 characters are outright useless against half the room (I have Razor, yay auto attacks...), I just end with a team that is completely flat for 11-2, so there isn't even a point.
The energy degen makes Barbara and Diona dead weights, Bennett is the only saving grace. Not the right elements, no reason to even try. Always, always the same problem.

Things should be a bit different tomorrow, but I'd like for just one day, one hour, one minute; since the start of the game, to have things stacked in my favor.
There has never, literally ever, been one favorable piece of content for electro and hydro characters. In the Abyss it's even more obvious how fucking shit they all are.

And I'm even lucky to have Diona and Bennett! If I didn't have them, I wouldn't even be able to try with only the basic characters as shield breakers (and the new Dragonspire monsters added... means that Pyro is yet again the one and only element you need, on top of everything else).
 

Durante

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And I'm even lucky to have Diona and Bennett! If I didn't have them, I wouldn't even be able to try with only the basic characters as shield breakers
I do see your larger point regarding the fact that the usefulness of different elements for end-game content is not at all balanced (though I wouldn't say it's just elements; claymore users [and Klee] are also simply easier to play as carries in my experience since they inherently break shields).

However, there are people who have cleared the entire Spiral Abyss with only the completely free characters, so not being able to try is not completely true.
 

TioChuck

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In my experience late floors of the Abyss is almost impossible without good and leveled artifacts. For characters, any counter element is good enough.
 

Line

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I do see your larger point regarding the fact that the usefulness of different elements for end-game content is not at all balanced (though I wouldn't say it's just elements; claymore users [and Klee] are also simply easier to play as carries in my experience since they inherently break shields).

However, there are people who have cleared the entire Spiral Abyss with only the completely free characters, so not being able to try is not completely true.
Claymore users do have an advantage, but a bit less so now with cryo hilichurls (as their shields regen too fast... except against pyro, yadda yadda)... though like elements, it does pose a question: one weapon has an inherent strength against geo constructs (and wood, but you know, not relevant), all the others have only a weakness when fighting it and no advantages whatsoever. Again.
May as well just say that the entire game was made for Diluc.

But it goes even beyond just the power of the element and how useful pyro can be, but also that is has the best resonance by far. Then cryo gets second place.
Hydro gets you increased healing, almost useless. Electro gets you 1 more energy per 5s, factually useless as it won't even be used since you have two chars generating it to begin with.
The two best elements get the two best buffs when you double up on them, and get even better if you combine them.
The two worst elements get two useless buffs, and they don't even work well in tandem. Or with anything else for that matter.

As far as the Spiral goes, sure, some people finished it with only the free chars. Barely, with almost no stars, because the old model required two pyros, two cryos.
Now it's probably more in line with heavy, heavy control... and if you can't even have Sucrose, I wonder how it goes with only the MC. The free blokes are not good for what's required. And the solution being "exploit the AI" certainly shows even more how broken the systems are.
But that's beyond my point, as any game can be done without getting hit, naked, no continues, etc, etc. But that requires an absurd amount of time invested in a game, even more so in a grinder like Genshin where grinding for very poor chars will literally cost you.

"But speed runners and youtubers can do it when it's their hobby/livelihood" is not defense of horrendous balance.
 

Ascheroth

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Problem is, my Venti is not even remotely built for shit, I kept him as the vacuum cleaner he is.
My Venti is far from maxed and geared as a Burstbot as well. He is 70/70 with a level 70 Favonius bow, Viridescent 4 piece (Crit rate circlet, EM sands) + a 4star Anemo% goblet. (Artifacts +16 at most) His damage is frankly insane and mostly just kills the slimes with the burst alone, he's definitely worth investing because he also scales incredibly well.

Claymore users do have an advantage, but a bit less so now with cryo hilichurls (as their shields regen too fast... except against pyro, yadda yadda)... though like elements, it does pose a question: one weapon has an inherent strength against geo constructs (and wood, but you know, not relevant), all the others have only a weakness when fighting it and no advantages whatsoever. Again.
May as well just say that the entire game was made for Diluc.

But it goes even beyond just the power of the element and how useful pyro can be, but also that is has the best resonance by far. Then cryo gets second place.
Hydro gets you increased healing, almost useless. Electro gets you 1 more energy per 5s, factually useless as it won't even be used since you have two chars generating it to begin with.
The two best elements get the two best buffs when you double up on them, and get even better if you combine them.
The two worst elements get two useless buffs, and they don't even work well in tandem. Or with anything else for that matter.

As far as the Spiral goes, sure, some people finished it with only the free chars. Barely, with almost no stars, because the old model required two pyros, two cryos.
Now it's probably more in line with heavy, heavy control... and if you can't even have Sucrose, I wonder how it goes with only the MC. The free blokes are not good for what's required. And the solution being "exploit the AI" certainly shows even more how broken the systems are.
But that's beyond my point, as any game can be done without getting hit, naked, no continues, etc, etc. But that requires an absurd amount of time invested in a game, even more so in a grinder like Genshin where grinding for very poor chars will literally cost you.

"But speed runners and youtubers can do it when it's their hobby/livelihood" is not defense of horrendous balance.
I saw a video about someone doing 11-2 with Anemo-MC, Kaeya, Barbara, Lisa. (That also explained how the AI behaves on the floor, like certain enemies will always only target the monolith, while others can target you. I do think the AI and enemy placement/spawn order was deliberately designed to be exploited on this floor, but yeah). Anemo MC seems to be really good here, because apparently his Hold elemental skill has the secret property of turning aggro on them (which, again, I don't think is mentioned or useful anywhere else, soo....)

I really want to level and Ascend the MC, since you get all the ascension mats from story and adventure rank and they'll only get more versatile with more elements in the future.

They really should rework Electro and Hydro resonances like they're doing with Geo.
And Electro in general is just the weakest element in terms of resonances right now, I wonder if they're going to change things up there too or give them a powerful reaction against Dendro (but Dendro is already weak to Pyro too so lol).

Hell, people are building Cryo and Pyro Keqing because electro reations are what they are :negative-blob:.
 

Durante

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As far as the Spiral goes, sure, some people finished it with only the free chars. Barely, with almost no stars, because the old model required two pyros, two cryos.
This guy did 3 starts in the old floor 12 with only the 7 completely free characters, 0 constellations on all of them, and most of them at level 80.

Of course, he does have incredible artifact stats in particular on his carry, and great player skills, but still, most people aren't constrained to just the F2P characters and no constellations on anyone.

Personally I really don't think that the Abyss floors are too hard for endgame content if you only have a few characters. Sure, they require a lot of attempts and learning each room, but for this one particular type of content in the game I feel like that's fine, and it's good that something like it exists for people who enjoy mastering the mechanics.

The problem isn't that it's difficult with limited characters, it's that some characters trivialize it, and particularly that a few of them are so broadly applicable to large chunks of this end-game content.

Anyway, that's just my opinion, as someone who didn't have a 5* carry until pulling Ganyu on the current banner, and is still far from having built her to the point where she is truly useful.

I actually personally don't play Abyss much at all since it requires 2 teams and I hate having to use characters I didn't properly build or learn to play, but it's just a tiny part of the content of the entire game and I think it's fine for that challenge to exist for people who enjoy it.


Edit:
And the solution being "exploit the AI" certainly shows even more how broken the systems are.
I also wanted to comment on this particular point. IMHO, "exploit the AI" -- which could be formulated more charitably as "learn the details of enemy behaviour" has been the solution to some of the most difficult challenges in many great games for many decades, and I really don't think that there is anything wrong with that. Especially in these cases in Genshin where you really just "exploit" intended behaviour (i.e. aggro mechanics) and not even any severe bugs.

Again, I feel like the problem is not that this is required to master the content; the problem is that some characters eliminate this requirement. But such is the nature of P2W/gacha games in general.
 
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Ascheroth

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I also wanted to comment on this particular point. IMHO, "exploit the AI" -- which could be formulated more charitably as "learn the details of enemy behaviour" has been the solution to some of the most difficult challenges in many great games for many decades, and I really don't think that there is anything wrong with that. Especially in these cases in Genshin where you really just "exploit" intended behaviour (i.e. aggro mechanics) and not even any severe bugs.

Again, I feel like the problem is not that this is required to master the content; the problem is that some characters eliminate this requirement. But such is the nature of P2W/gacha games in general.
Yeah I don't have an issue with that in itself. It could be fun.
But as you say, some characters trivialize it and I would also add that it would feel nicer if there were any easier content in the game that teaches you that this is a thing and what to look for.




This event is a lot of fun. The "high score chase" nature is a very nice incentive to try over and over again, the domain fully heals your health and burst if you stay in the room a bit and don't start (they should really just add a "try again" button though).
And the reward requirements are very fair.

Today's max point amount is 4275 and if this stays the same for all days you only need an average of 2857 points per day to get all rewards, so there's plenty of leeway and wiggle-room if one boss ends up being hard for your team but another is a push-over.
And not only that, all the "best" rewards are front-loaded. Up to 14k you get the talent and exp books, the event namecard at 14k and after that is just weapon exp, which is the easiest material to accrue in the game.

So with 2k a day you can get the best stuff, you still get some nice stuff if you can do better, but it's not like you're missing out on somethign crucial if you can't.

Which does make sense, because obviously they can't design these events for the high-level players / whales who've played since day 1.



In other news, Ganyu completely counters this boss :grimacing-face:



Completely solo, no other character did anything. Only charged shots, no skills used. All modifiers turned on except Cryo and Crit Damage reduction.
That's the best I can do for now, but I might be able to brute-force one or both of these when I ascend her next week and get her attack talent to 10. (I have exactly enough weekly boss mats for that, seriously it's like the game deliberately set me up for her with Amos Bow, Qiqi and boss mats).

But yeah, I hope we get more, hopefully even permanent, content like this in the future.
 

TioChuck

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the best part of the event is that you can use the cube boss room to charge your health, ult and revive anyone in your party.
 
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