|OT| Genshin Impact - Breath of the Elements

Ascheroth

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3915 points with solo Ganyu :dmcblob:

I made a vidya too:


That took a lot of tries though, since a single mistake pretty much means it's over :sweaty-blob:
I should, maybe, be able to max it next week if I can manage to get ascended and max her attack talent. (And/or get some better artifacts)
:evilblob:
 

Ascheroth

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News: Developers Discussion - 01/19

Quick highlights:
  • preload for mobile
  • controller support on ios upcoming
  • Fragile Resin added to the Battle Pass (free and paid, 5 in total each), no other rewards removed
  • confirmation that the "vast majority" of events going forward will require no Resin
  • Hold for adding weapon materials :dmcblob:
  • 1.3 will bring some sort of material conversion mechanic
  • some bugfix-explanations
 

Durante

I <3 Pixels
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Hold for adding weapon materials is really needed. Getting weapons to 90 is an a good clicking exercise but I don't think it should be.

Now please just do the mouse camera inversion thing seriously.
 
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Line

meh
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This guy did 3 starts in the old floor 12 with only the 7 completely free characters, 0 constellations on all of them, and most of them at level 80.

Of course, he does have incredible artifact stats in particular on his carry, and great player skills, but still, most people aren't constrained to just the F2P characters and no constellations on anyone.

Personally I really don't think that the Abyss floors are too hard for endgame content if you only have a few characters. Sure, they require a lot of attempts and learning each room, but for this one particular type of content in the game I feel like that's fine, and it's good that something like it exists for people who enjoy mastering the mechanics.
But we're back to my point.
"You can do it if you're incredibly lucky and one of the best Genshin players around with the minimum of stars" is extremely disingenuous.
And... changes nothing about having to PL like six shit characters in a game where you literally pay for that.

I also wanted to comment on this particular point. IMHO, "exploit the AI" -- which could be formulated more charitably as "learn the details of enemy behaviour" has been the solution to some of the most difficult challenges in many great games for many decades, and I really don't think that there is anything wrong with that. Especially in these cases in Genshin where you really just "exploit" intended behaviour (i.e. aggro mechanics) and not even any severe bugs.
I disagree to the highest order. Not that it is uncommon, that's very much the case. But games where speedruns rely on deterministic mechanics and controlling NCPs (and especially safe zones since it's everywhere in those games) is just failure of game design.
Just on the top of my mind Fire Emblem is utter garbage for that. Fascinating for sure. But a game where a player is completely irrelevant, and all that matters is knowing in advance what to do? Certainly makes things a lot easier. Also utterly pointless to play, a tool assisted speedrun will always be far more concise and optimized than a human one.

Aggro mechanics are very interesting like Ascheroth says.
It's a thing that don't even exist in Genshin Impact. But actually it does! For one skill, and I'm sure, others to discover. Because the best part of "intended behavior" are the ones that are nowhere to be found until you reverse engineer the game.
 

Durante

I <3 Pixels
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I guess we simply disagree strongly on what makes games interesting. "Reverse engineering" mechanics is one of my favourite things.

I also don't see how the need to study enemy behaviour makes the player irrelevant. How is knowledge of the mechanics not a relevant player skill?

I don't get your whole point about tool assisted speedruns, that's just a complete non-sequitur.
 

Ascheroth

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Played a bit yesterday, and noticed I had enough primogems to do a 10 pull... And got Ganyu and Xinqui!
Congrats! They're both very good.




The new web-event is cute:


Somehow the page doesn't seem to work with Chrome though...
 
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Ascheroth

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I have it working in Chrome.
Hm. I guess one of my add-ons doesn't play nicely then.




Btw there's also going to be a Stream for 1.3 later today (should start in 6 hours).

Looking forward to learning about some new stuff.
And codes :whistle:
 
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Durante

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After now having built up Ganyu decently well (as much as you can as a low-spending -- i.e. BP only -- player) and playing her for a while I feel like they did a really good job designing this character.
  • Her DPS potential is obviously great, but I don't actually think she's overpowered, because there's a unique set of tradeoffs. (There are still lots of situations where either my fully built Xiangling or even my half-baked Razor are better choices)
  • First of all, it's more difficult to realize this potential in terms of player skill than for most other 5 stars, or carries in general. It's just harder to play a charged shot style than a pummel enemies into submission style, and you immediately lose out on a lot of potential DPS when you get interrupted or miss a fast-moving enemy.
  • She's limited in her use cases by doing only ice damage. This is obvious, and also applies to quite a few other characters, but not all of them (i.e. physical carries and Geo damage are more broadly applicable).
  • She's also limited -- especially compared to some other popular carry choices like Diluc, Klee, or even Razor -- by having a really difficult time against shielded enemies. (Unless you run a freeze composition, but that's not trivial either, and if you add a second character then you can do the same with most other carries for greatly improved usability)
  • Her usefulness in other categories than main carry is actually not exceptional, just on par. For exploration, she's actually much "worse" than most 5 stars, who all have useful unique skills either in discovery or movement tech. As a support, she is decent especially against large crowds, but not as versatile as even 4-star characters like Diona are.
So I really think that's good design: have the character be exceptionally good at one thing (main DPS), but require some skill floor for that to actually manifest and make it not universally applicable. And have the character be decent at fulfilling other roles, but not really outperform alternatives. Overall I don't necessarily see Ganyu as indicative of a danger of significant power creep for these reasons.
 
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boop beep

boo
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Is it possible to rebind the confirm prompts to A and cancel prompts to B yet? (in-game, without workarounds)
 

Ascheroth

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After now having built up Ganyu decently well (as much as you can as a low-spending -- i.e. BP only -- player) and playing her for a while I feel like they did a really good job designing this character.
  • Her DPS potential is obviously great, but I don't actually think she's overpowered, because there's a unique set of tradeoffs. (There are still lots of situations where either my fully built Xiangling or even my half-baked Razor are better choices)
  • First of all, it's more difficult to realize this potential in terms of player skill than for most other 5 stars, or carries in general. It's just harder to play a charged shot style than a pummel enemies into submission style, and you immediately lose out on a lot of potential DPS when you get interrupted or miss a fast-moving enemy.
  • She's limited in her use cases by doing only ice damage. This is obvious, and also applies to quite a few other characters, but not all of them (i.e. physical carries and Geo damage are more broadly applicable).
  • She's also limited -- especially compared to some other popular carry choices like Diluc, Klee, or even Razor -- by having a really difficult time against shielded enemies. (Unless you run a freeze composition, but that's not trivial either, and if you add a second character then you can do the same with most other carries for greatly improved usability)
  • Her usefulness in other categories than main carry is actually not exceptional, just on par. For exploration, she's actually much "worse" than most 5 stars, who all have useful unique skills either in discovery or movement tech. As a support, she is decent especially against large crowds, but not as versatile as even 4-star characters like Diona are.
So I really think that's good design: have the character be exceptionally good at one thing (main DPS), but require some skill floor for that to actually manifest and make it not universally applicable. And have the character be decent at fulfilling other roles, but not really outperform alternatives. Overall I don't necessarily see Ganyu as indicative of a danger of significant power creep for these reasons.
Fully agreed.
I took her to the Abyss yesterday, and it's much harder for her to dish out damage there.
It should also be noted, that a lot of her really high number showcases are with the Amos Bow. And well, 5* weapons are just OP to begin with, I don't factor them into any balance considerations.
I think she's a strong but balanced unit that offers a unique playstyle with advantages and trade-offs.

Also yeah about the resources :grimacing-face:
I had 3 millions mora when I pulled Ganyu and Qiqi. After some light investment into Qiqi and Getting Ganyu to 80/90, talents 10/2/2 and some artifact levels I am now broke and started doing Mora Leylines yesterday, lol. (Not a BP buyer).
(She is my first 80/90 character and therefore also the first one to have maxed a talent, yay )
 

Ascheroth

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1.3 trailer:


some preview of the Lantern Festival, events, tower defense, new boss(es?) and Xiao.

more importantly

select a free Liyue 4* character:


Time to add Xinyan
(to the bench :grimacing-face:)
 

Durante

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Ok this will be hard. I can either get the first Ningguang constellation (which is really impactful) or get Xiangling C6 (who I use all the time). I think I might prefer to go with Ningguag, just because there's always a chance that I'll randomly pull a Xiangling later on and getting a character dupe that I already have at C6 would suck.

Fully agreed.
I took her to the Abyss yesterday, and it's much harder for her to dish out damage there.
It should also be noted, that a lot of her really high number showcases are with the Amos Bow. And well, 5* weapons are just OP to begin with, I don't factor them into any balance considerations.
I think she's a strong but balanced unit that offers a unique playstyle with advantages and trade-offs.
That's a good point regarding 5 star weapons. Also those damage showcases usually have near-perfect artifact sets, and a near-perfect melt or freeze party setup. You can get silly numbers with a lot of characters with that kind of setup.

I've invested a ton of resources into Ganyu (from my perspective at least) -- level 84, 8/6/6 talents, lvl 90 Skyward Harp (my only 5 star weapon), and farming the ice artifact domain for at least 500 resin, and I usually do ~17k crits with her charged shots. Which, don't get me wrong, is still fantastic and mcuh better than any other character I have, but I also don't have any other DPS 5-stars, or generally any other characters with this much investment. And it still requires pulling off the playstyle which is non-trivial against fast enemies.


Also yeah about the resources :grimacing-face:
I had 3 millions mora when I pulled Ganyu and Qiqi. After some light investment into Qiqi and Getting Ganyu to 80/90, talents 10/2/2 and some artifact levels I am now broke and started doing Mora Leylines yesterday, lol. (Not a BP buyer).
My resource situation isn't that great even with buying the BP multiple times, but at least I have enough Mora for now (short on everything else though, including levelling books). I shudder to think how much Mora farming I'd need without the push from the BP!
 

Line

meh
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Roll on the beginner's banner when you can... you may want to reroll your entire account if you want something good on those rolls... but it's painful to do now.

XP is almost only in the form of books, killing things gives pitiful amounts. Consider that ressources are limited and time gated, so you may not want to level up all your characters, though it's only at lvl50+ that it becomes a large investment (and you get free rolls for reaching character milestones anyway, so you'll try to get everyone to lvl20+ one day).

Your artefacts and weapons are super important numbers wise, don't neglect levelling them, they'll be fodder for your better ones later so it's not a waste.

Just explore and follow the story, try to find characters you like. And when you start getting new chars, you can share them here and we can brainstorm teams :evilblob:
 
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Ascheroth

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Thank you :D
Also some tips regarding rolling for characters/weapons, to maximize your chances of getting things you want without spending money:

There are 4 different types of banners:

The Beginner banner: it's discounted and goes away after 20 pulls. Spend on that first - you're guaranteed to get at least 2 4* star characters, one of which being Noelle.

The Permanent Banner (or Standard Banner): You're guaranteed to get a 4* character or weapon every 10 pulls and a 5* character or weapon every 90 pulls - there is, however a "soft pity" that increases your chances drastically after 75 pulls, so needing full 90 is usually rare. What you get is completely random and cannot be controlled in anyway, so unless you're literally fine with whatever, don't spend Primogems on it (the premium currency).
This banners shares pity with the Beginner banner, so those 20 pulls there will count towards its pity counter.

The Limited Banner: This banner rotates every 3 weeks. It has higher chances to get the 4* characters on it and also the 5* character. It's the same 90 pulls pity as the standard banner has (but they have separate counters). Every time you get a 4* item on this banner, you have a 50% chance to get one of the featured 4* characters. If you don't get one the first time, the second is a 100% chance to get one of the features 4* characters.
Same with 5* characters, the first time you have a 50% chance to get the rate-up character or any of the 5 standard 5*s. The second time (so a maximum of 180 pulls) you get it guaranteed. There is no chance at all to get a 5* weapon on this banner.
So if you're planning to sticking with the game long-term, keep these counts in mind if you want to save up for a specific character.
Pity carries over when the rate-up character changes, so if you put in 50 pulls on Banner for Character A, the counter is still at 50 pulls when it goes away and Banner for Character B takes its place.

The Weapon Banner: Honestly just avoid it, this is only for whales (aka the massive spenders), since you cannot guarantee which weapon you get on it. (There are 2 featured, and each has a 50% chance to appear if you pull a 5* item, you have no control over which one at all).

Pulling items will also give you specific currency as well - Starglitter and Stardust. which can be spent in the Paimon shop.
Starglitter is the one you get less of and it allows you to straight up buy specific characters - there are always 2 in the shop and they rotate every month. There are good weapons in the shop as well if that's more your thing. Don't spend it on anything else.
Stardust allows you to buy 5 pulls for the standard banner and 5 pulls for the permanent banner at a discount per month - use it on that, don't spend it on anything else.

If you want to put money into the game, the only good deals are the so called Welkin Pass and the paid Battle Pass.
The Welkin pass will give you a steady stream of premium currency over a month (however, you will need to login every day to collect it) and the Battle Pass will give you a lot of resources, a good weapon and some premium currency and pulls.
Everything else is totally not worth it.

If this sounds complicated, don't worry you don't really need to engage with it at that level at all to have fun with the game, but it's good to know to avoid some common mistakes and disappointment.
 
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Durante

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There's one more thing I'd mention: there are so-called weapon prototypes in the game, which are used for weapon crafting. There are quite a few guaranteed ones early on, but their drop potential in the long term is very low.

These are particularly valuable in the mid- to late game if you are a low spender, since they allow you to get pretty good weapons of all types. My advice would be to not use those until you are at a point in the game where you really know what characters you like playing and who will be in your team, and then you can figure out if (i) you actually need a better weapon for them or you already got one from another source, and (ii) whether there's a suitable craftable you could use.

(And just like all the other stuff, none of this is actually necessary to follow to just enjoy the story content)

If you want to put money into the game, the only good deals are the so called Welkin Pass and the paid Battle Pass.
The Welkin pass will give you a steady stream of premium currency over a month (however, you will need to login every day to collect it) and the Battle Pass will give you a lot of resources, a good weapon and some premium currency and pulls.
Everything else is totally not worth it.
I'd like to reiterate just how much the rest is not worth it (or if you want to look at it more charitably, how much better the Welkin and Battle Pass are). People who did the math figured out that the Battle Pass is the equivalent value of 900 primogems/$ (though slightly less flexible in the rewards you get), the Welkin is 600 primogems/$, while the best consistent rate you can get by buying the premium currency directly is 80 primogems/$.

Honestly, I feel like the way this is designed actively discourages buying anything else, even if you were inclined to spend more. I guess it doesn't matter to whales :p
 
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Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
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Here's the recording from yesterday's stream btw. I watched it and it was pretty fun - was moderated by the VA's of Aether, Paimon and Ganyu and they're great.



I found this recap in text form: miHoYo - Official Community

Lots of cool stuff coming. 1.3 seems to have a lot of stuff that are pushing friends.
  • The tower defense is 2 player co-op
  • The photo event has you trade photos with friends to get all rewards
  • The special expeditions against the new adult Geovishaps allow you to send 4 of your own characters + 1 character from a friend
  • More stats on the ingame profile, with the ability to let people see what characters you have and even what gear
 

Line

meh
Dec 21, 2018
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Thinking about the free character in 1.3, I'll pick Ningguang for C1 I think.

Note that if you don't have him already and don't really want one of the others, pick Xingqiu. I think especially for Lashley if you're playing at the time.
Xingqiu's passive to refund some crafted talent books is worth countless primogems if you start using it early.
Same for Mona and dungeon materials, but obviously, she's a bit harder to get.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
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Oh yeah, I cleared the Abyss for the first time yesterday. :dmcblob:
9/9/6/7 stars. Not gonna bother trying to get the remaining 5 stars.

Floor 11-2 is indeed doable if you have some understanding of how the AI operates. I could end the first half with around 70% monolith health remaining pretty consistently. Almost got 3 stars. Almost. I messed up some shots with Ganyu in the second half. :negative-blob:
 
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Panda Pedinte

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One thing that I really dislike in GI is farming for ascension materials for weapons and abilities, not like it's hard or anything but being able to get them only in certain day of the weeks is annoying.
 

Lain

serial experiments
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I hate 11-2 with a passion. I managed to finish Abyss some days ago, and even managed to get 3 stars on floor 11-2 but I hated every single second of it. Considering my venti is level 50 and basically ill equipped, I had to let klee and ganyu carry the 2 teams damage wise, and yet... I couldn't have done it without venti on team 2 and (underleveled) mc/ning on team 1 to do some crowd control for those enemies that focus on the tower.

Got Ganyu to 88. She's gonna be me my second 90 after Klee. Her artifacts are mostly 4 stars, because no good cryo 5 stars wants to drop (except for a flower), but even so she puts out some damn fine damage thanks to all the crit damage she has. She does between 10 and 12k headshots with a following 21-23k aoe bloom. Reactions with xiangling's stuff bring the number to 19k headshots with 36/39k aoe. So I now basically go around oneshotting the little churls and bullying all the fatui and it feels damn great.
I wanted an archer that allowed for a charged shot gameplay and Ganyu delivered in spades.
 

Ascheroth

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Are there plans to implement 2FA? I heard that account theft is rampant on this game.
I'm not sure.
There's 2FA when changing account details, so theft shouldn't really be possible anymore when you have linked your account (there was apparently an issue where someone could still take your account if you only linked email and not phone, since they could add their own phone without 2FA and then change the rest or something like that - but I think that's no longer an issue?)
No idea regarding 2FA for normal login though.
 

Ascheroth

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Man Mihoyo sure knows how to make awesome trailers. And there's usually quite some lore in them, surprisingly even in the ones that are just character skill explanations. (I need to go back and watch the older ones at some point, I haven't watched all of them).

Do I spy some future boss teasing there :blobeyes:
 
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Line

meh
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Last day to get Ganyu, don't forget about the discounted fates in the shop if you want her.
Cause I did. :blobeyes:


And so the Xiao banner is finally revealed:

And those are some really good support characters for him. And in general.

The Keqing banner is... quite something for whales I guess.

Two super popular waifus and god Bennett negates Barbara (which I'm sure will appear 500 times for anyone rolling on it :shrugblob:).
On the other hand, those four don't work well together at all, Bennett is always good for buffs, but that's a very low synergy team so you'd need to have multiple decent teams ready for them.
 
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Ascheroth

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Those are some pretty nice 4* line-ups for me, I think I'll try my luck and nab 1 each banner.

If I get Diona, I can pick Xinyan as my free 4* and complete my 4* collection.
If I get Xinyan, I can pick C1 Ningguang.
If I get Beidou I have her at C$ which is apparently very good for her.

Well and on the Keqing banner, it's a chance to C1 Ning or Bennett, and if I get Barbara I have her at C6 for some QoL auto-resurrection.

Not really a bad outcome either way.


In terms of 5* I'll be sitting out Xiao for sure.
Keqing is the standard 5* that I wanted the most when the game came out, but not sure if I want to pull for her. I feel like I'll get her with a 50/50 on a future banner anyway.
Hu Tao is likely coming afterwards as the 3rd 5* this update, since the banners are only 2 weeks. I'm semi-interested in her, but we'll see.
 

Ascheroth

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Saw this picture of a timeline for 1.3 events:



It's ...odd that Xiao's story quest doesn't start with his banner.
Looks like the first week is still going to be mostly downtime.
Although, there will be the new boss to play around with and new world quests. And the item transform thingy and we'll see what else.

Also nothing about a Keqing story quest.... that also feels odd.
 
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Dandy

Bad at Games.
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I love Xiao's design, though I'm not sure I'd use him. Keqing seems a lot of fun, and I hear Bennett is pretty good too.

Right now I am using Ganyu, Venti, and Xingqui and swapping people around for my fourth slot. I'm also not interested in spending time on end game stuff or grinding, so I guess it doesn't matter a whole lot who I use.
 

Ascheroth

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I love Xiao's design, though I'm not sure I'd use him. Keqing seems a lot of fun, and I hear Bennett is pretty good too.

Right now I am using Ganyu, Venti, and Xingqui and swapping people around for my fourth slot. I'm also not interested in spending time on end game stuff or grinding, so I guess it doesn't matter a whole lot who I use.
Bennett is one of the best 4* in the game (especially with C1) and probably outclasses several 5* in usefulness.
He works in pretty much every team, he heals, buffs attack, cleanses elements, is pretty low-investment to see benefits but scales very well with more investment.

Keqing is a bit weird, she's a very strong and versatile DPS despite electro reactions being pretty meh. (She can run Physical or Electro, and some people even run her as Cryo or Pyro lol).
 
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Durante

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I'll roll on Keqing, I have enough saved up and I've wanted her since the launch of the game. I already have a R3 Black Sword ready.
 
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Ascheroth

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Got me Xinyan and C4 Beidou within my 20 pull limit for this banner. That's pretty much the ideal scenario I had in mind.
C1 Ningguang from the pick-your-4-star event, here I come :blobeyes:
 
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TioChuck

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Anyone wanna trade photos? I have spare red and blue, I'm on NA server.

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Ascheroth

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Can't complain about bad luck anymore, a wild C1 Diluc just appeared of a random single pull (the level 10 BP one) and I'm way, way, way before pity on the standard banner (it was pull 27 on it to be exact) :grimacing-face:
I would have preffered a 5* char I didn't have but so far from pity I really can't complain.



The update so far feels a bit weird since the main stuff isn't starting until next week. The new stuff that already appeared is not bad though.
 
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Line

meh
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The kurious kamera event is pretty poopoo.
I don't really see the point of getting random colors and exchanging them for doing different things each day, the concept is good, but it's just... why? It really adds nothing to it. Maybe they could have made something a bit more interesting with a faulty camera than that. Giving you specific targets like the Oceanid's summons and stuff?
Meh.
 

Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
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The kurious kamera event is pretty poopoo.
I don't really see the point of getting random colors and exchanging them for doing different things each day, the concept is good, but it's just... why? It really adds nothing to it. Maybe they could have made something a bit more interesting with a faulty camera than that. Giving you specific targets like the Oceanid's summons and stuff?
Meh.
I think it's fine. It does give you a specific topic to work with every day.
Their main goal is probably nudging people towards building a friends list. The Marvelous Merchandise 2 event where you could go into other worlds to grab a different box if you didn't like your own, this camera event and the enhanced profile showcase that will tie into an upcoming event where you send chars on special expeditions and can borrow the showcased chars from friends.
 

TioChuck

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I did tough that a Tower Defense minigame would be pretty boring, but I'm really enjoying it, this event overall is great.
 
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Ascheroth

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I did tough that a Tower Defense minigame would be pretty boring, but I'm really enjoying it, this event overall is great.
I quite enjoyed it solo already, but it got really fun doing it co-op with a friend.
Since you then have 2 chars to give some (reaction/stagger) assistence and can select 2 of the random upgrades after each stage.

Got some hilarious boni going on during our latest run:
+10 pyro range (was fickle, but the random negative effect was worth it, lol)
+2 pyro range
pyro double attack
+pyor attack damage
(and some other stuff for other towers)

was hilarious to see the Pyro towers shooting from the middle of the map towards the portal and basically killing everything.
 
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Line

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It's a very well done minigame, better than most 3D TD games honestly.
The element system really shines, especially since you can use your characters to interact with the towers (and do some shenanigans, especially with Jean who can just pick up mobs and throw them into a pit), it ends up much richer than just regular DPS machines on the field (and the upgrades are pretty interesting too, even if linear to unlock).

The time gate to unlock harder mobs but also different levels and more towers push you to try new stuff later too, for once it's not a negative.

On the other hand, the quests are pretty bland, there's tons of them and it's pretty meh like a lot of other fetch quests. Though the flying one was a nice come back of that gliding minigame, I kinda like that one.