Community MetaSteam | September 2019 - Valve, I Know What You Did Last Summer!
- Thread starter lashman
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If this reselling thing actually pans out, I expect time-limited licenses and always-on DRM in everything. I can see this doing more harm than good since, understandably, developers and publishers will be looking at their bottom line first and foremost. Reselling digital games sounds great on paper, but it's not gonna happen like we would want it to.
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Despite the memes, PC is still an incredibly huge part of the gaming economy and a ton of games that turn into overnight successes get their start on PC because they can't get started elsewhere. Additionally, while Steam is who the ruling against, this would apply to digital games everywhere which means indies, etc. (any digital version of a game) would be subject to this law. Technically publishers and devs would be better off with a Steam marketplace implementation since they currently get $0 from resale of physical games, at least digital they could keep getting some income.
This is extremely hyperbolic. Physical resale has existed for as long as physical anything has existed and no market has stopped functioning because of it. While the adoption would be higher (lower barrier to entry), as mentioned above, an implementation along the lines of Steam marketplace where pubs/devs get a % of the sale (like they already do with cards) would actually benefit devs more than the physical resales that already exist.
This was one of my first thoughts as I've recently started buying movies digitally instead of physically. There's no reason to think this won't apply to literally all digital "goods" because they basically all function the same way.
I don't know how French law works, but if it's possible to appeal to a higher court I have to think Valve will, but that might not be an option. I don't think not being able to resell a digital good is as abusive as loot boxes and the like (by far), but the whole corporate sentiment of "you're just buying a license to use this thing, not the thing itself" has been the cause of a lot of problems so this is a blow against that.
I think it's actually a harder blow to non-Steam companies, because Steam already has a marketplace implemented that could be tweaked to allow for this. It also will likely result in even heavier region locking than we already see.
Don't know exactly how this will turn, but keep in mind that it's a French justice decision. It still can be overturned in appeal. Whole procedure took 4 years to get to this conclusion.
And it concerns France for now. It's not a worldwide law.
I do agree with Mivey here :
But we have to keep in mind that it doesn't apply to every game, especially indie games.
I'll be watching the outcome closely, because Valve now have to answer. What I don't know is what happens if they take the fine and keep their business as it is actually ? I saw a limit of 540 000€ in this judgement. Valve can definitely take that hit. But what then ? New lawsuit ?... I'm not into french commercial law enough to know.
Anyway, I remember my youth, when I was ONLY buying resold games in specific shops in my town Lyon. The video game market was different, but resale was a big part of it. That's how I got out of piracy, it was not possible for me to buy games at full price but when I found these reselling shops, I could at least buy legit games.
But I do agree that in this particular system we're now used to, being able to resale a game bought for 1 buck in a big discount may change a lot of things, and I don't know if that would be for the best eventually.
Let's see how it turns out, if this decision is confirmed, when it will be enforced, how Valve handle it, where it may apply... In France only ? Will European Union follow and make this "law" EU-wide ? That didn't happened when Belgium banned gambling in games in their country, maybe Belgians can tell us more. I know you're here, you're everywhere !
There's a lot of things we don't know yet.
And it concerns France for now. It's not a worldwide law.
I do agree with Mivey here :
But we have to keep in mind that it doesn't apply to every game, especially indie games.
I'll be watching the outcome closely, because Valve now have to answer. What I don't know is what happens if they take the fine and keep their business as it is actually ? I saw a limit of 540 000€ in this judgement. Valve can definitely take that hit. But what then ? New lawsuit ?... I'm not into french commercial law enough to know.
Anyway, I remember my youth, when I was ONLY buying resold games in specific shops in my town Lyon. The video game market was different, but resale was a big part of it. That's how I got out of piracy, it was not possible for me to buy games at full price but when I found these reselling shops, I could at least buy legit games.
But I do agree that in this particular system we're now used to, being able to resale a game bought for 1 buck in a big discount may change a lot of things, and I don't know if that would be for the best eventually.
Let's see how it turns out, if this decision is confirmed, when it will be enforced, how Valve handle it, where it may apply... In France only ? Will European Union follow and make this "law" EU-wide ? That didn't happened when Belgium banned gambling in games in their country, maybe Belgians can tell us more. I know you're here, you're everywhere !
There's a lot of things we don't know yet.
Hot Lava is going live in a few. Beta progress was wiped but beta testers get a few exclusive items.
There goes my 20 hours of progress I guess.
Aren't the keys completely custom made for that keyboard? Don't think you can replace them with anything.
Eh, un voisin lyonnais !
Local law don't always become an EU law.
And I was wrong to use the word "law". Law have been there for decades, the decision is saying : what Valve do doesn't respect that law.
But right now, there's nothing that can force OTHER stores to comply. Steam was the only store sued, so they are the only one that should comply.
I don't think it's a slam-dunk that you can require developers to be given a cut though. First-sale doctrine exists in the USA, and the EU has exhaustion doctrine. And maybe I'm misunderstanding the basis of those concepts, but how can you mandate that second-hand sales have to go back to the original rights holders?
Also, what's the basis for a fair cut anyways? There's that company Robot Cache, which the InXile founder started, and you only get like 25% of your game's sale price back. That sounds like shit.
for
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They can appeal, no reason to think they won't.
They plan to go after other stores if they win the case against Steam and use it as a precedent.
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Everyone is talking about Steam but I'm here wondering what will happen to stores like Mangagamer/JAST/any other VN store which has limited resources and barely turn a profit with their visual novels.
I guess if they don't have the resources to comply or if they comply and take a loss they'll go under, or maybe they'll just regionlock every country that is affected.
Free weekend and lowered base price, wonder if they improved the game, recent reviews say yes but there are only a few.
honestly I dont know. But I think devs getting money from reselling will be a point of contention
Yeah, and now I'm thinking now of another hellscape option that we could end up with.
Right now we get "lifetime" licenses for games, tied to our account forever.
What if the new standard to circumvent the law isn't subscription passes, but just actually limited licenses? Now instead of a license that's attached to you forever, you get a license that expires at the end of a year or two. Therefore eliminating A) any sense of ownership, and B) the need to allow for resale anyways.
We return to the big box PC releases and become a full circleYeah, and now I'm thinking now of another hellscape option that we could end up with.
Right now we get "lifetime" licenses for games, tied to our account forever.
What if the new standard to circumvent the law isn't subscription passes, but just actually limited licenses? Now instead of a license that's attached to you forever, you get a license that expires at the end of a year or two. Therefore eliminating A) any sense of ownership, and B) the need to allow for resale anyways.
No, they can replaced. I found a video where someone does it. But I can't find the keys they use neither do they specify what type of key they went for nor does the link they provided work.
Oh my god the ending credits sequence in World of Final Fantasy is the bestest thing ever.
All the chibis dancing with HanaKana singing
THIS IS THE BEST.
All the chibis dancing with HanaKana singing
THIS IS THE BEST.
They look like a standard MX-compatible stem. The default caps are very low profile and seem to be tapered a bit to match the shape of the switches, but I would think any other profile size would fit too, just make the tops of the keys rest a little higher.
Maybe try going with a cheap set to test it out?
Amazon product ASIN B07CYTLXRB
Edit: I think I found the video you were talking about.
Even though the link he shared is dead, he's using a standard Tai-Hao keycap set, probably an OEM profile. So you should be able to use pretty much any set I linked above. The video shows him doing some modifications to it with a screwdriver, I'm not 100% sure if that's necessary, he seems to be implying that the caps will be harder to remove again if you don't do that first.
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This is true, as Strauss Zelnick said: "The world has changed. When we consider a console release, the PC format can be 40% or 50% now of that revenue. Ten years ago, that number was 1% or 2%. Clearly, the world is changing."
But it's not a choice between physical vs digital reselling, it's a choice between digital reselling vs only selling first-hand copies. From a publisher's point of view the choice is pretty obvious.
Also, I don't know if digital reselling is obviously better for the companies, unless it is heavily regulated (see below). For one thing, the physical medium can suffer from wear and tear, and isn't 100% guaranteed to work, unlike digital which is always a perfect replica. You may be able to guarantee it will work by buying from your local GameStop, but those copies are localized and reliant on nearby gamers to sell their copies. The alternative is to buy from eBay, you can't guarantee that the product will work but due to scale you have many more options.
On the other hand, digital is both 100% guaranteed to be working AND has the advantage of reaching the entirety of the global market (unless regulated), users would have zero fear in buying a second-hand copy and it would cannibalize sales of first-hand ones, unless developers cripple their games in some way to punish second-hand buyers.
Steam can regulate the market in a couple of ways, like setting a minimum price, forcing a wait of one month, locking to individual countries/regions, not allowing copies to be sold above what they were originally bought at, giving a large cut to developers etc. but there's no guarantee the French court won't just slap Valve with another fine for market manipulation or some such.
My big fear is that an unregulated second-hand market would kill games like Sekiro (which was my GOTY). Sekiro is single-player, no online, not much in the way of replayability, and it's super hard; it's also one of the greatest and best-feeling games I've ever played. It would also be absolutely slaughtered by a digital second-hand market.
Second-hand prices would very quickly drop after release due to its difficulty (those who didn't refund before 2 hours would sell in frustration), and the people who quickly beat it (takes a weekend at most) would then flip their copies. There is no incentive to keeping the game due to no online, and if you want to replay it in a year or two... just re-buy a second-hand copy which would be much cheaper then anyhow.
Sekiro is a good enough game that plenty of people would still keep it, but would it be profitable enough for From to considering making a second one? They would probably be forced to tack on some online and invading/PVP to keep players hooked, despite it arguably watering down the experience. What about all the AA games trying to copy Souls? They'd probably be screwed.
Note: this is all practical talk. From an intellectual perspective I'm the sort of guy who thinks all information and data should be virtually free, costing no more than the electricity required to transfer the information and flip the bits on my hard drive back and forth. The ability to make virtually unlimited copies of a good is the single greatest power digital technology allows. Sadly the world does not function on ideals, and creators have to eat too.
Yeah, and now I'm thinking now of another hellscape option that we could end up with.
Right now we get "lifetime" licenses for games, tied to our account forever.
What if the new standard to circumvent the law isn't subscription passes, but just actually limited licenses? Now instead of a license that's attached to you forever, you get a license that expires at the end of a year or two. Therefore eliminating A) any sense of ownership, and B) the need to allow for resale anyways.
That is 100% where I see this going (in addition to subs like game pass). I've been going on and on about it on Era for a few pages, but I cannot fathom developers and publishers taking this on the nose instead of limiting our access to games even further.
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Why wouldn't it? They'll rent you the game like iTunes movies or give you a time-limited license like antivirus software.
I'm not a proponent of this, for what it's worth. I just don't think it'll end well for consumers. It wouldn't be the first nor the last time that policymakers devise a law that backfires on those who it means to protect (because businesses will find a way around it).
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If you treat games like any other software why wouldn't it? I mean games ARE software, imho it's just that nobody has gone down that road before.
Police Stories released. Restart Steam for 25% voucher.
50%? Wow. Too bad PC gaming will be dead by 2021 thanks to magical console SSDs, but at least we had a good last few years.
50%? Wow. Too bad PC gaming will be dead by 2021 thanks to magical console SSDs, but at least we had a good last few years.
So a 2020 game gets its page but Digimon, which launches in one month doesnt? fuck you bamco
If I had any money left, I would gladly bite the bullet on Mutazione.
Then there is the sweet letters game I missed.
...
And probably 4-5 others, this is crazy.
Jesus I tried Overland on that new Apple Arcade service to check how it is before getting it on Steam and it's sooooo fucking annoying. We have mobile games ported to PC with HUGE user interfaces and I can live with that but it's the other way around with Overland. Everything is soooooo damn tiny. My hands hurt just trying to play it for a few minutes. And Apple Arcade is only available on iPhone at the moment. lol.
The game itself seems kinda decent so far, not sure I feel like spending the 21 euros they're asking for though. I'm already purchasing Jenny LeClue and Police Stories.
The game itself seems kinda decent so far, not sure I feel like spending the 21 euros they're asking for though. I'm already purchasing Jenny LeClue and Police Stories.
yup still slowly getting threw the opened tabs
meanwhile - free weekend , denuvo removal and update for
aligator looks cute as hell
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They look like a standard MX-compatible stem. The default caps are very low profile and seem to be tapered a bit to match the shape of the switches, but I would think any other profile size would fit too, just make the tops of the keys rest a little higher.
Maybe try going with a cheap set to test it out?
Amazon product ASIN B07CYTLXRB
Edit: I think I found the video you were talking about.
Even though the link he shared is dead, he's using a standard Tai-Hao keycap set, probably an OEM profile. So you should be able to use pretty much any set I linked above. The video shows him doing some modifications to it with a screwdriver, I'm not 100% sure if that's necessary, he seems to be implying that the caps will be harder to remove again if you don't do that first.
Thank you very much!
Now having to find some that are qwertz and not for hungary.
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