Community MetaSteam | May 2020 - We May Or May Not Be Around In June!

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Kandrick

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Jun 10, 2019
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Definitely play the PC version. There's a ton of improvments but turbo mode in particular is an absolute must.
Thanks! Guess i'll just get them all on PC then at some point.

On another note, i managed to find this after going through some boxes, but i'm not sure what to do with it



It had this inside still, so maybe i could play Persona 4 Golden again :blobyesanime:

 

Wildebeet

First Stage Hero
Dec 5, 2018
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I dont really get the humble bundle. I dont think it works for my playtime/style. 9 Games a month! I barely get through 2-3 games in a month.
Yeah I think that too. It sometimes feels like I'm just getting keys for the hell of it. I was thinking I might get the bundle and try a few games, give the rest away ... but tthinking about what I'll actually play and when I can get around to it it's like not getting anything at all.
 
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Ascheroth

Chilling in the Megastructure
Nov 12, 2018
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MO Astray leaving a great first impression... it's pretty fucked up :sweaty-blob:

And for some reason my niece really likes Ara Fell (well it is a good game) - We played through it once already a while ago, but she wanted to play it again. At least the Enhanced Edition came out, so it's a slightly different experience 😅 (well and we skipped all the side stuff because she wanted to get on with the story, maybe this time it will be different, lol)
It's only in english though, so I have translate it for her on the fly. Exhausting.
 

Deleted member 113

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I previously posted about Onion Games, a small Japanese developer led by the director of, among many things, Little King's Story.
They have two fun, and totally bonkers, games on Steam: BLACK BIRD, and Dandy Dungeon.
I've been having a lot of fun with the later game, as I mentioned several times in the past (and I posted about BLACK BIRD as well).

I just received their latest newsletter, and there's a message from them that I would like to share:

---

Hey! Can you help Onion Games?

We have two HUGE favors to ask! First off:


You know that feeling when you love a game, but you haven't really told the world about it? We know that feeling too. We love lots of games, but we don't always leave reviews for them in the places where it matters most! Guilty as charged!


It would mean a lot to all of us Onions if you would take a few minutes to leave a review for our games on Steam.. it helps us more than you know!

---

So, if you guys want to help a small Japanese developer gain a bit more visibility on Steam (since many smaller developers still struggle to get any sort of promotional store placement on Steam, while publishers like tinybuild, who continuously sign exclusives to competing stores, are given front page treatment, and banners, like this weekend), and already own the games, do consider leaving reviews for them, so they can start showing in recommendation feeds, and who knows, maybe one of these days Valve will remember them, and display them on the front page.





Cheers. :cat-heart-blob:
 

AHA-Lambda

MetaMember
Oct 9, 2018
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Just saw the news that Malwarebytes have released a VPN and was wondering if anyone has used any of the other products from Malwarebytes beyond their core protection product?
Just curious if they're worth using as Malwarebytes itself is very good after all.
 

Deleted member 113

Guest
Is anyone in here from Brasil?
I want to buy the DLCs for A Lenda do Heroi from Nuuvem, but they won't sell to me, since I'm located in Europe.
This:

Anyone up to help me, and I would paypal you the funds?

thank you :)
A big thank you to TioChuck, who helped me finally get those DLCs I was missing. :cat-heart-blob:

Cheers! :highfiveblob:
 
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Deleted member 113

Guest
I used to crowdfund a decent number of games, but now I only do so for very small number of exceptions.
It has to be something that looks really great (and affordable), or from a developer who I have previous positive experiences with.
Because more frequently than not, all you get is pissed off by the nerve some of these developers exhibit.

I have yet another example.

With this game:

The developer, who also did the game Pinstripe, crowdfunded the game for PC (with a possible release for the Switch).
The game had an expected delivery of late 2018. Yeah, I now, they never release the games on time.

Anyway, somewhere in 2019, he posted the game was pretty much done.
Then, after a period of silence, he posted that the game was delayed, for reasons he couldn't explain, but it was good news. And, at the same time he revoked the keys for backer beta's on Steam.
People were expecting the game to now be an EGS exclusive.

After some time, he said no, the game will still launch on Steam, but they were delaying the game (which was done) to release simultaneously with console ports. To which platforms? Well, he couldn't say. o_O

After another period of silence, the game launched today... on the Apple Arcade.
You know why it isn't out on PC?

Read the below text (an excerpt of the update I'll link to), and laugh.
Spoilers: it's because the Steam version is still in certification, and these things take time, while Apple were faster, to certify an Apple Arcade version that... was never previously mentioned.

Here it goes:

«Hello beautiful backer. First, thanks for your patience and your amazing support. I'm thrilled to announce that Neversong (formerly Once Upon A Coma) is in the final stages of its port to several large platforms, including Steam and some consoles! The Steam launch is incoming! Be on the look-out for an update!

I can't disclose which console platforms we are launching on at the moment though!(Please note, backers receive Steam keys, unless you purchased the Switch add-on, which was a temporary sale event in 2018). We're in a process called "cert", which basically means you finalize various aspects of your game to ensure your game abides by the various rules of each platform. Fortunately, one platform, Apple, actually passed us already, so we launched with them today! Figured I'd let you all know so you can play on your iOS with a free trial! It's actually super fun on iOS, and it's because of you guys. I'm grateful we were able to launch on Apple, because it means your support has resulted in millions of mobile players across the world being able to share in our little adventure :)

As you all know, every platform is different, and sometimes devs stagger launches because of various schedules and variables associated with each platform. That said, if you'd like to play Neversong on Apple Arcade, you can play with a free trial. Thanks Apple! »


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/80348891/once-upon-a-coma-from-the-creator-of-pinstripe/posts/2825399
 

PC-tan

Low Tier Weeb
Jan 19, 2019
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I used to crowdfund a decent number of games, but now I only do so for very small number of exceptions.
It has to be something that looks really great (and affordable), or from a developer who I have previous positive experiences with.
Because more frequently than not, all you get is pissed off by the nerve some of these developers exhibit.

I have yet another example.

With this game:

The developer, who also did the game Pinstripe, crowdfunded the game for PC (with a possible release for the Switch).
The game had an expected delivery of late 2018. Yeah, I now, they never release the games on time.

Anyway, somewhere in 2019, he posted the game was pretty much done.
Then, after a period of silence, he posted that the game was delayed, for reasons he couldn't explain, but it was good news. And, at the same time he revoked the keys for backer beta's on Steam.
People were expecting the game to now be an EGS exclusive.

After some time, he said no, the game will still launch on Steam, but they were delaying the game (which was done) to release simultaneously with console ports. To which platforms? Well, he couldn't say. o_O

After another period of silence, the game launched today... on the Apple Arcade.
You know why it isn't out on PC?

Read the below text (an excerpt of the update I'll link to), and laugh.
Spoilers: it's because the Steam version is still in certification, and these things take time, while Apple were faster, to certify an Apple Arcade version that... was never previously mentioned.

Here it goes:

«Hello beautiful backer. First, thanks for your patience and your amazing support. I'm thrilled to announce that Neversong (formerly Once Upon A Coma) is in the final stages of its port to several large platforms, including Steam and some consoles! The Steam launch is incoming! Be on the look-out for an update!

I can't disclose which console platforms we are launching on at the moment though!(Please note, backers receive Steam keys, unless you purchased the Switch add-on, which was a temporary sale event in 2018). We're in a process called "cert", which basically means you finalize various aspects of your game to ensure your game abides by the various rules of each platform. Fortunately, one platform, Apple, actually passed us already, so we launched with them today! Figured I'd let you all know so you can play on your iOS with a free trial! It's actually super fun on iOS, and it's because of you guys. I'm grateful we were able to launch on Apple, because it means your support has resulted in millions of mobile players across the world being able to share in our little adventure :)

As you all know, every platform is different, and sometimes devs stagger launches because of various schedules and variables associated with each platform. That said, if you'd like to play Neversong on Apple Arcade, you can play with a free trial. Thanks Apple! »


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/80348891/once-upon-a-coma-from-the-creator-of-pinstripe/posts/2825399
So... How do devs get paid on Apple Arcade again? By the amount of downloads that a game has or something like that?

So is this dev just trying to get people to download and play that version, since technically people don't need to "buy" that game in order to play and the dev gets "free money" out of it and then after that is done and people like it they will end up potentially "repurchasing" the game on what ever platform that they play games on?



....dang I wish that I had thought about that
 

Wildebeet

First Stage Hero
Dec 5, 2018
798
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FunktionJCB Stuff like this is why kickstarter isn't fun anymore. It's mostly about publicity, or showing a larger company that you've got some kind of public support for your project so they invest in it or publish. I hate to say it, but it really feels like KS has had its day and serves little purpose anymore. A couple weeks ago I was going to back Sea of Stars, which does look incredible, but nowhere do they commit to steam keys. So I didn't. So you always have this concern that you back something, then they sell you out and say "what, it doesn't matter, dude."

Also "cert" on Steam. I love that the developer thought he was all clever, pulling it over everyone like that. Steam is the wild west. There's no cert, look at some of the absolute shit that ends up on there.

Anyway, the days of Hollow Knight and Hyperlight Drifter and a ton of other stuff where the funding really was needed, feels real gone. I miss it. I liked chipping in a little bit to help a cool project happen that otherwise couldn't.
 

Deleted member 113

Guest
So... How do devs get paid on Apple Arcade again? By the amount of downloads that a game has or something like that?

So is this dev just trying to get people to download and play that version, since technically people don't need to "buy" that game in order to play and the dev gets "free money" out of it and then after that is done and people like it they will end up potentially "repurchasing" the game on what ever platform that they play games on?



....dang I wish that I had thought about that
Not sure.

I do know they have been signing developers for some time-exclusivity.
There's a game that was shown at the recent LudoNarraCon that is a 1 year exclusive to the Apple Arcade, and will only launch on PC and consoles later.

This particular developer has been absolutely baffling.
He posts updates saying the game is delayed (despite being complete), but he can't say the reasons.
He posts updates saying the game will be released soon, but he can't say the dates.
He posts updates saying the game will be released on several platforms, but can't say which.
It's frankly ridiculous.

I don't have a problem with delays.
I do have a problem when people are dishonest, and try make people out to be fools.
 

Deleted member 113

Guest
well technically there is ... but they only really check if your game:
  • works
  • actually is what is being presented on the store page
  • doesn't have any malware etc.
and that's about it ... takes like a day
The PC version is ready since last year.
First, he delayed the game to launch simultaneously on consoles (which weren't even originally part of the plan).
And now, he ends up launching on an unannounced platform, and leaves everyone waiting. :rolleyes:

---

Guys, may I ask a question regarding the new Humble Choice bundle.
I bought the bundle, and I'm located in Europe.
I'm trying to send a copy of XCOM 2 to someone from India. I got a message saying the game may not activate there.

Checking:

From what I'm reading, I assume since my purchase was done in Europe, I'll get a key for this app:

Will it work for him.
If I'm reading the information above from steamgifts correctly, the problem would be if someone from India bought the bundle (which would get him a key region-locked to India), and he tried to send it to someone else. And, my key (from Europe) should work fine in India.

Is this correct?
Or, he won't be able to activate my key, and will only be able to activate a key from India?

thank you. :)
 
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PC-tan

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well technically there is ... but they only really check if your game:
  • works
  • actually is what is being presented on the store page
  • doesn't have any malware etc.
and that's about it ... takes like a day
Isn't being certified an optional thing to begin with on Steam? What does Valve do about devs that don't very and that have malware in their game?
 
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lashman

lashman

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The PC version is ready since last year.
First, he delayed the game to launch simultaneously on consoles (which weren't even originally part of the plan).
And now, he ends up launching on an unannounced platform, and leaves everyone waiting. :rolleyes:
yeah, i know, i know

i'm just clarifying that there is a "cert" process ... but it takes hardly any time, so it doesn't really matter anyway

Isn't being certified an optional thing to begin with on Steam? What does Valve do about devs that don't very and that have malware in their game?
lol, no :p the game HAS to work etc. ... they check all games before they allow them to go live ;)
 
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PC-tan

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yeah, i know, i know

i'm just clarifying that there is a "cert" process ... but it takes hardly any time, so it doesn't really matter anyway



lol, no :p the game HAS to work etc. ... they check all games before they allow them to go live ;)
Has it always been like this though? Because I recall some games In the past releasing as an empty folder or is that something else?


Am I drunk thinking that Sakura Wars was getting a pc release too?
They never mentioned anything other than PS4, but I don't think they ever mentioned it being a PS4 exclusive or anything like that.

Maybe it will release on PC within a year?
 
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BO7AMMOOD

Lucas isn't sure what to do anymore
Apr 18, 2019
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Is anyone in here from Brasil?
I want to buy the DLCs for A Lenda do Heroi from Nuuvem, but they won't sell to me, since I'm located in Europe.
This:

Anyone up to help me, and I would paypal you the funds?

thank you :)
You just reminded me of this game, so I looked it up on Steam, and what do you know, it's finally been translated to English!
I remember pre-ordering this game years ago from Nuuvem even though I don't really understand Portuguese! I was going to play it anyway since the idea behind it was so charming, and it also had beautiful 16-bit-ish pixel art, but then I put it on ice in the hope that it gets translated one day! And what do you know, that day is here now!
 
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lashman

lashman

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Has it always been like this though? Because I recall some games In the past releasing as an empty folder or is that something else?
yeah, pretty much always

and that empty folder stuff etc. was either a steam bug ... or devs deleting stuff themselves by mistake :p
 
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Deleted member 113

Guest
Am I drunk thinking that Sakura Wars was getting a pc release too?
SEGA, once again, seems to have forgotten about the PC (except, of course, for the European PC strategy franchises they bought).

For such a big company, they are unable to get a small team together, so they can launch their Japanese titles on PC on the same day as consoles.

Valkyria Revolution? nah
Judgment? nah
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise? nah
Heck, even their SEGA Ages titles? nah

Remember when they updated the Sega MegaDrive/Genesis app on Steam, and made an announcement that they sold a big number of MD games at the time? How did they follow through? By not releasing a single more MD game on Steam.

Sakura Wars is just another game to add to the list.
If we are lucky, we'll see a port in 2, 3, or even 5 years. Or, we just won't get them.

Because yeah, even when they say the PC represents more and more a big source of income for them, we still get the "stepchild" treatment compared to console users.

I've been having trouble updating my games on Steam. It's like they get to 100% download but then don't finish.
My downloads have been finishing, but they have been getting "stuck" at 99%, stay there for a while, and after some time it finishes.
A couple of days ago, in all my purchases, I would never get that final confirmation screen, it would get stuck on the previous screen (despite the purchases going through).

So yeah, Steam appears to be having some problems recently (before the current sale started).
 
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Rando10123

Junior Member
Sep 15, 2019
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I bought a lot of VNs and SoR 4 for this sale. Can't wait to play them once I'm done with exams

Don't like their regional pricings, but I think I can buy this without any second thoughts.
My only issue is Oninaki in that bundle. Could've put any other JRPG like Saga Scarlet Grace or Romancing Saga than that one, but that bundle is pretty damn good all things considered.
 
OP
lashman

lashman

Dead & Forgotten
Sep 5, 2018
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SEGA, once again, seems to have forgotten about the PC (except, of course, for the European PC strategy franchises they bought).

For such a big company, they are unable to get a small team together, so they can launch their Japanese titles on PC on the same day as consoles.

Valkyria Revolution? nah
Judgment? nah
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise? nah
Heck, even their SEGA Ages titles? nah

Remember when they updated the Sega MegaDrive/Genesis app on Steam, and made an announcement that they sold a big number of MD games at the time? How did they follow through? By not releasing a single more MD game on Steam.

Sakura Wars is just another game to add to the list.
If we are lucky, we'll see a port in 2, 3, or even 5 years. Or, we just won't get them.

Because yeah, even when they say the PC represents more and more a big source of income for them, we still get the "stepchild" treatment compared to console users.
yup, sounds like SEGA JP alright :p
 

BO7AMMOOD

Lucas isn't sure what to do anymore
Apr 18, 2019
650
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I used to crowdfund a decent number of games, but now I only do so for very small number of exceptions.
It has to be something that looks really great (and affordable), or from a developer who I have previous positive experiences with.
Because more frequently than not, all you get is pissed off by the nerve some of these developers exhibit.

I have yet another example.

With this game:

The developer, who also did the game Pinstripe, crowdfunded the game for PC (with a possible release for the Switch).
The game had an expected delivery of late 2018. Yeah, I now, they never release the games on time.

Anyway, somewhere in 2019, he posted the game was pretty much done.
Then, after a period of silence, he posted that the game was delayed, for reasons he couldn't explain, but it was good news. And, at the same time he revoked the keys for backer beta's on Steam.
People were expecting the game to now be an EGS exclusive.

After some time, he said no, the game will still launch on Steam, but they were delaying the game (which was done) to release simultaneously with console ports. To which platforms? Well, he couldn't say. o_O

After another period of silence, the game launched today... on the Apple Arcade.
You know why it isn't out on PC?

Read the below text (an excerpt of the update I'll link to), and laugh.
Spoilers: it's because the Steam version is still in certification, and these things take time, while Apple were faster, to certify an Apple Arcade version that... was never previously mentioned.

Here it goes:

«Hello beautiful backer. First, thanks for your patience and your amazing support. I'm thrilled to announce that Neversong (formerly Once Upon A Coma) is in the final stages of its port to several large platforms, including Steam and some consoles! The Steam launch is incoming! Be on the look-out for an update!

I can't disclose which console platforms we are launching on at the moment though!(Please note, backers receive Steam keys, unless you purchased the Switch add-on, which was a temporary sale event in 2018). We're in a process called "cert", which basically means you finalize various aspects of your game to ensure your game abides by the various rules of each platform. Fortunately, one platform, Apple, actually passed us already, so we launched with them today! Figured I'd let you all know so you can play on your iOS with a free trial! It's actually super fun on iOS, and it's because of you guys. I'm grateful we were able to launch on Apple, because it means your support has resulted in millions of mobile players across the world being able to share in our little adventure :)

As you all know, every platform is different, and sometimes devs stagger launches because of various schedules and variables associated with each platform. That said, if you'd like to play Neversong on Apple Arcade, you can play with a free trial. Thanks Apple! »


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/80348891/once-upon-a-coma-from-the-creator-of-pinstripe/posts/2825399
I'm not sure what's more pathetic; The developers selling out their backers for a quick buck from Apple, or them thinking that they're slick enough to lie their way through it.
 

Deleted member 113

Guest
Honestly if the game flopped on PS4, we might not get it. I have barely seen any marketing for it, felt it was sent out to die.
Yeah, like with Valkyria Revolution, sadly I don't think we'll get it, because of the poor sales on consoles. :(
 
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BO7AMMOOD

Lucas isn't sure what to do anymore
Apr 18, 2019
650
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SEGA, once again, seems to have forgotten about the PC (except, of course, for the European PC strategy franchises they bought).

For such a big company, they are unable to get a small team together, so they can launch their Japanese titles on PC on the same day as consoles.

Valkyria Revolution? nah
Judgment? nah
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise? nah
Heck, even their SEGA Ages titles? nah

Remember when they updated the Sega MegaDrive/Genesis app on Steam, and made an announcement that they sold a big number of MD games at the time? How did they follow through? By not releasing a single more MD game on Steam.

Sakura Wars is just another game to add to the list.
If we are lucky, we'll see a port in 2, 3, or even 5 years. Or, we just won't get them.

Because yeah, even when they say the PC represents more and more a big source of income for them, we still get the "stepchild" treatment compared to console users.
It's really frustrating to see SEGA giving PC the schizophrenic treatment one has come to expect from other Japanese publishers such as Square Enix. I really love plenty of the stuff SEGA makes, and I was expecting them to push on following their flurry of releases in the past couple of years. Seeing Yakuza on Steam was especially satisfying, which begs the question: Where's Judgement/ Yakuza 3-6 SEGA???

Let's hope their silence is nothing more than an utter marketing failure, and not them deprioritizing Steam going forward,
Yeah, like with Valkyria Revolution, sadly I don't think we'll get it, because of the poor sales on consoles. :(
Which is pretty ironic because releasing Valkyria Chronicles on Steam in 2014 is what breathed new life into the series. Shame on you SEGA!
 

Nzyme

Time to get Fit
Sep 19, 2018
192
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Yeah still waiting on a bunch of Sega ports, but it always feels like they take their time to do things with super small teams. So I'm not surprised.

The remaining Yakuza games and spin offs, Judgement, Fist of the North Star, are all pretty much top of the list.
 

Rando10123

Junior Member
Sep 15, 2019
432
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I think the only Japanese publisher this gen that really prioritized multiplatform releases was Bandai Namco. Most of their games nowadays are day 1 including both PC and consoles. Some companies like SE and Koei Tecmo are hit or miss except with their old catalog, Capcom just recently are also pushing for day 1 PC releases so hopefully companies like Sega and the others follow through. Now the issue is regional pricing and how some games are all over the place
 

PC-tan

Low Tier Weeb
Jan 19, 2019
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SEGA is weird, I think that in Japan for a TGS they displayed Total War 3K even though the game does not have Japanese support.


Sakura Wars got a 33/40 from Famitsu so it's at minimum a 7/10 type of game but more in the realm of 8/10. So just based off that it's a decent game, compared to VCR which I don't think even Famitsu liked.

I have seen some marketing for Sakura Wars but it's on a very small scale (mostly just Twitter scale of things with reviews keys and stuff like that. Was there even a CE for the game?
I think the only Japanese publisher this gen that really prioritized multiplatform releases was Bandai Namco. Most of their games nowadays are day 1 including both PC and consoles. Some companies like SE and Koei Tecmo are hit or miss except with their old catalog, Capcom just recently are also pushing for day 1 PC releases so hopefully companies like Sega and the others follow through. Now the issue is regional pricing and how some games are all over the place
If imagine that for Bandai it's been paying off, since most of their stuff has been selling rather decently and if the game is a dud (if the game is a dud on PC it likely will also be a dud on consoles as well, so the PC would at least be able to make it's money back and help recuperate the cost of making the game to begin with
 
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Kandrick

Junior Member
Jun 10, 2019
523
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Switzerland
SEGA, once again, seems to have forgotten about the PC (except, of course, for the European PC strategy franchises they bought).

For such a big company, they are unable to get a small team together, so they can launch their Japanese titles on PC on the same day as consoles.

Valkyria Revolution? nah
Judgment? nah
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise? nah
Heck, even their SEGA Ages titles? nah
I would buy each of these. I'd buy the new Sakura Taisen too.

Also where's the other Yakuza games ? I still haven't played 6 and i'm waiting for that PC version. At this rate i'll play it in 2025 maybe.

What is SEGA even doing.
 

uraizen

Junior Member
Oct 7, 2018
698
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You wouldn't believe the amount of times I find interesting games, because I mistyped something. :grinning-face-with-smiling-eyes:

I mean, I'm not even sure what I was searching for, but came across this cool-looking fighting game:

Ayy, that's the same game I was sent to review for my curation shit. Already had a copy from backing it and told them I didn't want to review it since it wasn't out yet. It sucks in its current state.
 
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Spookyfriend

Junior Member
Jan 27, 2019
124
353
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Oh man the Square Enix Steam Bundle is not available at my region.

XCOM 2 in Humble Choice does not even come with War of the Chosen , I mean I got the base game from Humble Monthly Last Time already, I will choose other games.

I also want to get Sakura War, If no pc version then I buy a used version on the ps4 :(
 

Cordelia

MetaMember
Jun 10, 2019
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I can't disclose which console platforms we are launching on at the moment though!(Please note, backers receive Steam keys, unless you purchased the Switch add-on, which was a temporary sale event in 2018). We're in a process called "cert", which basically means you finalize various aspects of your game to ensure your game abides by the various rules of each platform. Fortunately, one platform, Apple, actually passed us already, so we launched with them today! Figured I'd let you all know so you can play on your iOS with a free trial! It's actually super fun on iOS, and it's because of you guys. I'm grateful we were able to launch on Apple, because it means your support has resulted in millions of mobile players across the world being able to share in our little adventure :)
From my limited experience with multi platform gaming and mobile gaming, this is bullshit. PC (Steam) has no cert process, that's why updates or hotfix can be pushed earlier than console, example is Warframe where console update will take place weeks after PC. Apple cert is bullshit, a lot of mobile game (that has Android and iOS version) update or maintenance time were delayed because they couldn't pass Apple cert.

Don't like their regional pricings, but I think I can buy this without any second thoughts.
Not available on my region :blobclosecry:

How much is it?
Am I drunk thinking that Sakura Wars was getting a pc release too?
No.
Sakura Wars got a 33/40 from Famitsu so it's at minimum a 7/10 type of game but more in the realm of 8/10. So just based off that it's a decent game, compared to VCR which I don't think even Famitsu liked.
It flopped in Japan though.
 
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